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- A Private Eye
- Rep: 77
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Enjoyed it.
Although I've felt the past season or so they've dragged their feet to play it out longer. Like I felt the whole plot development from this week could be told in about 5 mins or something absurd if you recount it to someone else.
The show is still great, but I think the pacing these days is a bit slow if you compare it to an Episode from season 1 or 2 where it seemed things happen more often.
I think they've struggled without Martins source material. They clearly have dots they want to join but without the books to help flesh it out it has, at times, felt like the past couple of seasons has been ponderously moving characters around the map until they get to where they need to be for the season climax.
I'm hoping now we near the end everyone will have a bit more purpose.
Still enjoyed the episode, typical scene setting but it was good all the same.
I'm curious how Arya was able to just approach a group of Lannister soldiers and eat with them when in previous seasons the impression was Lannister soldiers killed pretty much anyone who approached them.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
monkeychow wrote:Enjoyed it.
Although I've felt the past season or so they've dragged their feet to play it out longer. Like I felt the whole plot development from this week could be told in about 5 mins or something absurd if you recount it to someone else.
The show is still great, but I think the pacing these days is a bit slow if you compare it to an Episode from season 1 or 2 where it seemed things happen more often.
I think they've struggled without Martins source material. They clearly have dots they want to join but without the books to help flesh it out it has, at times, felt like the past couple of seasons has been ponderously moving characters around the map until they get to where they need to be for the season climax.
I'm hoping now we near the end everyone will have a bit more purpose.
Still enjoyed the episode, typical scene setting but it was good all the same.
I'm curious how Arya was able to just approach a group of Lannister soldiers and eat with them when in previous seasons the impression was Lannister soldiers killed pretty much anyone who approached them.
Arya's plot armor. She can single handedly murder two men and bake them into pies without drawing attention. She can be stabbed in the stomach 4 times, swim through raw sewage, then run and fight at full speed without being hindered. She could rule the twins for weeks without fucking up and was able to murder all male Freys.
After all that, the Soldiers not being pricks is what grabs your attention?
- A Private Eye
- Rep: 77
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
A Private Eye wrote:monkeychow wrote:Enjoyed it.
Although I've felt the past season or so they've dragged their feet to play it out longer. Like I felt the whole plot development from this week could be told in about 5 mins or something absurd if you recount it to someone else.
The show is still great, but I think the pacing these days is a bit slow if you compare it to an Episode from season 1 or 2 where it seemed things happen more often.
I think they've struggled without Martins source material. They clearly have dots they want to join but without the books to help flesh it out it has, at times, felt like the past couple of seasons has been ponderously moving characters around the map until they get to where they need to be for the season climax.
I'm hoping now we near the end everyone will have a bit more purpose.
Still enjoyed the episode, typical scene setting but it was good all the same.
I'm curious how Arya was able to just approach a group of Lannister soldiers and eat with them when in previous seasons the impression was Lannister soldiers killed pretty much anyone who approached them.
Arya's plot armor. She can single handedly murder two men and bake them into pies without drawing attention. She can be stabbed in the stomach 4 times, swim through raw sewage, then run and fight at full speed without being hindered. She could rule the twins for weeks without fucking up and was able to murder all male Freys.
After all that, the Soldiers not being pricks is what grabs your attention?
Well yeah kinda.
It's a show with dragons and ice zombies in it, I suspended my disbelief at the door. Some logistical and practical inconsistancies over how difficult it would be to murder and cook a couple of guys or rule the twins for a couple of weeks I can live with. No doubt difficult things to pull off in the real world (face swapping impossibilites aside) but not impossible and I don't need to see it in order for the pay off to work.
The soldier scene just didn't really gel with anything we've ever previously been shown. We've spent 6 seasons watching Lannister armies be avoided like the plague so you don't get mirdered, raped or both. Yet now girl on her own approaches Lannister soldiers, they share food and drink with her, she tells them she's going to kill Cersei, a Lannister and the Queen no less and they laugh it off.
I can live with it, just felt like a very clumsy way of crowbarring Ed Sheeran into a scene while pointing Arya back north.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Randall Flagg wrote:A Private Eye wrote:I think they've struggled without Martins source material. They clearly have dots they want to join but without the books to help flesh it out it has, at times, felt like the past couple of seasons has been ponderously moving characters around the map until they get to where they need to be for the season climax.
I'm hoping now we near the end everyone will have a bit more purpose.
Still enjoyed the episode, typical scene setting but it was good all the same.
I'm curious how Arya was able to just approach a group of Lannister soldiers and eat with them when in previous seasons the impression was Lannister soldiers killed pretty much anyone who approached them.
Arya's plot armor. She can single handedly murder two men and bake them into pies without drawing attention. She can be stabbed in the stomach 4 times, swim through raw sewage, then run and fight at full speed without being hindered. She could rule the twins for weeks without fucking up and was able to murder all male Freys.
After all that, the Soldiers not being pricks is what grabs your attention?
It's a show with dragons and ice zombies in it, I suspended my disbelief at the door. Some logistical and practical inconsistancies over how difficult it would be to murder and cook a couple of guys or rule the twins for a couple of weeks I can live with. No doubt difficult things to pull off in the real world (face swapping impossibilites aside) but not impossible and I don't need to see it in order for the pay off to work.
The soldier scene just didn't really gel with anything we've ever previously been shown. We've spent 6 seasons watching Lannister armies be avoided like the plague so you don't get mirdered, raped or both. Yet now girl on her own approaches Lannister soldiers, they share food and drink with her, she tells them she's going to kill Cersei, a Lannister and the Queen no less and they laugh it off.
I can live with it, just felt like a very clumsy way of crowbarring Ed Sheeran into a scene while pointing Arya back north.
Exactly!!! Surprised the soldiers where not thinking "Gang Bang". Those were the nicest most clean cut soldiers I have ever scene on GOT.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
We saw Brienne kill Stark soldiers in season 3 because they had hung and murdered the owner of an inn. Maybe because I served for 9 years, but most Soldiers aren't merciless killers that want to harm anyone they can for sadistic reasons. I think that was the point of the scene. To remind Arya that not everyone on the other side is a "bad" person. This entire story is about showing the shades of grey of humanity and redemption. The Hound butchered a boy in season 1. He also saved Sansa from being raped and protected Arya for 2 seasons. He's certainly made a change again after his time with the Septon.
Jamie pushed Bran out of a window in the first episode. And while the show hasn't followed his arc exactly as it is in the books, I think it's safe to say that Jamie's POV and actions are certainly more understandable and relatable at this point. How many of you would call Jamie an evil/bad guy? It's kind of been forgotten, but he was called "Kingslayer" for 17 years. In the earlier seasons Jamie feels his honor is unredeemable. Ned Stark mocks his honor. But then we find out that Aerys was going to murder everyone in King's Landing (in the books Aerys ordered him to bring him Tywin's head too) and Jamie murdered him to save tens of thousands of lives. Yea, he broke his vow to protect the king, but we can agree the situation surround his act was definitely not black and white. The other king's guard followed their vows as they beat Sansa repeatedly. Were they good men for following Joffrey's orders?
Brienne is portrayed as this beacon of female empowerment and honor. But she followed and swore her sword to Renly, the 3rd brother. Renly had no claim to the throne. Anyone who believed in his claim were ignoring the line of succession that clearly puts Stannis as the rightful ruler - the same guy the always honorable Ned Stark backed. She even murders Stannis for killing Renly, while as we saw last episode with Jon and Sansa, the punishment for treason is death. Renly objectively committed treason against Stannis. So who is Brienne to pass judgement on Stannis for what he did to Renly?
All of that is a long way of saying there are shades of grey to every character in the show (save Euron and Ramsay) and to remind Arya that just as her father's men followed their lord, the Lannister men are compelled through honor, law and tradition to follow house Lannister. That doesn't mean they're evil people or bad simply because they're fulfilling their oaths. Arya definitely took notice of that. This scene is probably one of the few in the entire episode I didn't take issue with, because it was so believable compared to other ideas that are outright absurd when you take a second look (see Euron sailing past Dragonstone twice without doing anything for the best example).
- A Private Eye
- Rep: 77
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
All your examples are of individuals, who of course can change for better or worse over time due to different factors. In this case though we are talking about a nameless group of soldiers. I'm not drawing any comparisons between GOT soldiers and real soldiers but in GOT world do you not agree a teenage girl wandering alone was taking a hell of a risk approaching a group of Lannister soldiers, not to mention saying she was heading to kill Cersei?
Even if those soldiers have had a lovely character arc that's made them see the error of their ways, Arya doesn't know that, yet she walks up to them like friends in a bar.
I suppose you could say it was deliberately reflecting the differences of an army being lead by Tywin compared to Jaime but I'm not sure I believe that was the intention.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
So the hound saw a mountain in the flames
Sam remembers the mountain of glass at Dragon Stone, wants to tell Jon
Dany is at a Mountain with a Castle.
Is the Mountain the Hound Saw where the White Walkers are headed the same Mountain that Dany and Sam are thinking of? The only Mountain with shit that can kill the White Walkers?????
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
All your examples are of individuals, who of course can change for better or worse over time due to different factors. In this case though we are talking about a nameless group of soldiers. I'm not drawing any comparisons between GOT soldiers and real soldiers but in GOT world do you not agree a teenage girl wandering alone was taking a hell of a risk approaching a group of Lannister soldiers, not to mention saying she was heading to kill Cersei?
Even if those soldiers have had a lovely character arc that's made them see the error of their ways, Arya doesn't know that, yet she walks up to them like friends in a bar.
I suppose you could say it was deliberately reflecting the differences of an army being lead by Tywin compared to Jaime but I'm not sure I believe that was the intention.
Plus the Freys joined the Lannister Army at the Riverlands and they were real savages. So true noble Soldiers of the real Lannister Army are probably cool blokes.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
All your examples are of individuals, who of course can change for better or worse over time due to different factors. In this case though we are talking about a nameless group of soldiers. I'm not drawing any comparisons between GOT soldiers and real soldiers but in GOT world do you not agree a teenage girl wandering alone was taking a hell of a risk approaching a group of Lannister soldiers, not to mention saying she was heading to kill Cersei?
Even if those soldiers have had a lovely character arc that's made them see the error of their ways, Arya doesn't know that, yet she walks up to them like friends in a bar.
I suppose you could say it was deliberately reflecting the differences of an army being lead by Tywin compared to Jaime but I'm not sure I believe that was the intention.
My point is that just because they're Lannister doesn't mean they're mindless thugs. Again, Stark soldiers did horrible things too. Their actions certainly weren't reflective of Ned. Like the soldiers said, they saw an opportunity to see King's Landing. They romanticized the world. Then learned how fucked people can be. It's not a character arc. It's simply showing the human side of other people who may serve a different ruler. Soldiers in the Army don't all agree with Trump, nor did they Obama. They're people with individual beliefs and stories.
Arya could have killed them all if she wanted. I think that was her intent when she sat down. The camera certainly flashed to their weapons and positions from Arya's point of view. The idea that this girl could kill Cersei is absurd. They took it as a joke.
If you were in Wyoming around a campfire and a teenage girl joined you, and after being asked told you she was headed to D.C. to take out Trump, would you think she was serious. There are no guns or bombs in this era. So put yourselves in their shoes. A girl armed only with a sword is going to not only infiltrate the red keep, but defeat armored soldiers and knights to get at Cersei all on her lonesome? It's laughably absurd.
They didn't immediately start laughing. They took a second to process it, realized the absurdity, and treated it like a joke. If your 5 year old nephew holding a toy gun told you he was going to kill the president, would you notify the SS and FBI, or would you laugh it off?
Those soldiers are so relaxed because they don't see Arya as a threat.
People want to classify others in black and white terms. And Martin is trying to destroy that trope and show the complexity and shades of humanity. I think this scene did that. It's not all titties and dragons.
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Good episode. Not great, but solid. It feels like this has all been a big set up for next week when Jon meets Dany.
And you can really, really feel how the writers no longer have source material to go on. It was noticeable last season, but glaring this season. It almost feels like fan fiction.
The weakest moment has to be Sansa and Jon talking to the Northern Lords, again... And Sansa publicly questioning Jon...again. You would think he would address her with his intentions before those meetings, or she would wait until they were over to call him out... And I'm pretty sure he would have said, "Hey, Sansa, I'm going down to Dragonstone to see about getting a mountain of dragon glass and see if the Dragon Queen will lend us her dragons to help save all of our cold butts up here, would you mind holding down the castle while I'm gone?"
And of course, when he tells her he's leaving her in charge, she drops the tantrum and is suddenly cool with it.
I don't think they have any idea what to do with Little Finger, Brienne or Sansa and Jon's relationship at this point. It feels really awkward and redundant.
