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Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Losing Ghost would be freaking heartbreaking. I know he's going to, and I left him off my list because I'm trying to will it not to happen, but the way this story has played out, it is going to be awful.
Wasn't one of the betrayals, the last one, supposedly out of love for Dany?
Also, since you've read the books, and Aegon isn't in the show, what's his deal? Do you really think he's Jon's brother or a fake? I only ask as that seems like a pretty significant role to leave out of the show.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Losing Ghost would be freaking heartbreaking. I know he's going to, and I left him off my list because I'm trying to will it not to happen, but the way this story has played out, it is going to be awful.
Wasn't one of the betrayals, the last one, supposedly out of love for Dany?
Also, since you've read the books, and Aegon isn't in the show, but what's his deal? Do you really think he's Jon's brother or a fake? I only ask as that seems like a pretty significant role to leave out of the show.
I'm a firm believer he's a fake. There's this huge backstory in the books about the Great Targaryen Bastards, and Daemon Blackfyre who's mother and father were both Targaryen. On his death bed, Aegon IV legitimized all of his bastards and gave the Targaryen Valyrian steel sword, Blackfyre, to Daemon. Every king since Aegon the Conquer wielded this sword, so many thought Daemon was the rightful heir. For 150 years, the Blackfyres continually tried to usurp the throne, until Barristan Selmy killed the last Blackfyre from the male line as a young knight.
Varys is in my opinion, a Blackfyre. We know how important king's blood is, and some wizard in Volantis (where the Blackfyre's retreated to after each defeat) wanted his boy parts for some magic. He also keeps his head shaved, which is something a young Aegon V did to hide his Targaryen hair.
Illyrio's hints and behavior all point to him being married to Varys' sister, who also would be a Blackfyre. He's been bankrolling Aegon while Varys setup for his return in King's Landing. I believe that "Aegon" is Illyrio's son and Vary's nephew, the last heir of the Blackfyre line. One of Dany's prophecies in the House of the Undying was to beware of the "Mummer's Dragon". Varys is quite literally a mummer, and Blackfyre's have been pretending to be Targaryen's for the better part of 150 years.
Further add in Blood Raven, aka the 3 eyed crow, aka Brynden Rivers, one of the 5 Great Bastards who lost his eye fighting against the Blackfyres and was sent to the wall after he killed the 3rd Blackfyre pretender dishonorably, and you have all the backstory necessary to make "Aegon" a fake rather than a true Targaryen.
That being said, Daemon Blackfyre was by blood as much Targaryen as anyone. So take that as you will. Rhaegar's prophecy said there would be 3 heads of the dragon. Dany is obviously one and Jon is the other. Blackfyre or not, Aegon still has Targaryen blood and may be the 3rd head of the dragon.
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Holy. Shit. That is brilliant. Never even occurred to me about Varys. I know there's a theory Tyrion is the third head of the Dragon. Since the Blackfyres were left out of the show, there's no reason to include it. But makes perfect sense why he was chosen for that spell and why he shaves his head.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Holy. Shit. That is brilliant. Never even occurred to me about Varys. I know there's a theory Tyrion is the third head of the Dragon. Since the Blackfyres were left out of the show, there's no reason to include it. But makes perfect sense why he was chosen for that spell and why he shaves his head.
There is a solid reason to suspect Tyrion is a Targaryen. Aerys lusted after Johanna, Tywin's wife, who was a Lannister by birth. In the books, Tyrion has miscolored eyes, with one being black, but some saying a dark purple (Targaryen's have violet eyes). The Mad King was in Casterly Rock about 9 months before Tyrion's birth, so it's entirely possible. Tyrion also claims to have had dragon dreams as a child ( a Targaryen trait) and has a natural affinity for Dragons (as shown on the show, in the books the guy who tried to free the dragons got roasted for it). So there's something there to consider.
I don't think so, however. I think it's much more interesting for Tyrion to be Tywin's true son despite all his hatred and animosity. Tywin was Hand of the King to a Targaryen, and now Tyrion (on the show at least, but probably heading that direction in the books) is the Hand of the Queen to a Targaryen. I really like the idea that Cersei and Jamie are the bastards of the Mad King and Johanna. It would make Cersei's Mad King tendencies so much better and would be so much more poetic if Jamie and Tyrion both killed their fathers. But there's less evidence to support this.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Holy. Shit. That is brilliant. Never even occurred to me about Varys. I know there's a theory Tyrion is the third head of the Dragon. Since the Blackfyres were left out of the show, there's no reason to include it. But makes perfect sense why he was chosen for that spell and why he shaves his head.
Yes. That is an interesting theory for sure!! I thought Tyrion was the 3rd head as well.
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
I am interested to see how Martin resurrects Jon Snow in the books and how different it is from the show. I get the feeling the Jon in the books, and Arya, can Warg. So, more than likely he slipped into ghost. I just think it could have been bad ass had they put him on a funeral pyre and he walked out of that shit alive and unscathed. I'm also interested in how Stannis works out in the books. I can't see him surviving very long.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
I am interested to see how Martin resurrects Jon Snow in the books and how different it is from the show. I get the feeling the Jon in the books, and Arya, can Warg. So, more than likely he slipped into ghost. I just think it could have been bad ass had they put him on a funeral pyre and he walked out of that shit alive and unscathed. I'm also interested in how Stannis works out in the books. I can't see him surviving very long.
You hit the nail on the head. Jon has been told he's a warg by other wildling wargs, but is ashamed of it. Arya uses her warg abilities to overcome her blindness. She wargs into cats while the waif and kindly man (Jaqen is off on a mission in the books, so he's never in Bravos) beat her to see who is hitting her and avoid their attacks. Arya also has "dreams" she's Nymeria and leading a 1000 wolf pack, though she doesn't really grasp what a warg is. Rob never had a POV chapter, so can't say for certain, but all the text points to him subconsciously warging Greywind while in battle. And Bran comments that Rickon (keep in mind he's 4 in the books) is losing his humanity as Shaggy Dog's personality is more powerful than his own. Sansa's wolf died too early, but presumably she's a warg too.
Jon's last words as it goes dark is "Ghost" and Jon knows through a warg he killed, that wargs can live a 2nd life in their animal after death. The eagle that attacked him in the book and show was the wildling warg he killed moments earlier.
Beric Dondarion was brought back 8 or 9 times so far in the books before he gave up his life so Catelyn could come back. Each time he died, he said he lost a piece of himself and came back a different person. Compared with Catelyn who is completely homicidal and murdering Lannisters and Freys by the dozen, you can see a huge change from being brought back. I believe Jon will overcome this change by living in Ghost until such a time as Melisandre brings him back. Though some have commented how cool it would be if "Jon" is brought back and we go the entire book thinking it's him only to get a final chapter of Jon living inside of Ghost.
Stannis is in a much better position in the books. The whole Ramsay and 20 men fucking up his army, is well, fucking stupid and an example of show abandoning Martin's writing to go Hollywood. Stannis has united all the Northern Houses save a coupl and the mountain tribes, and has a few working inside Winterfell. He has the Iron Bank backing him fully. Furthermore, Mance Rayder is alive in the books, and was sent on a mission by Jon to infiltrate Winterfell (Mance has done this many times and was there when Robert visited Ned in book/season 1). Book 6 is going to start with the battle of Winterfell, so who knows how it will go, but it certainly won't be the one sided affair it was on the show, and Brienne won't be anywhere near there as the book wasn't retarded and put Sansa in the Bolton's control. They have Sansa's best friend, Jeyne Poole, who's posing as a fake Arya to unite the North around the Boltons.
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
That's insane, Jon in Ghost with something else in Jon. I like the more traditional narrative with the show, but that's interesting. So it's quite possible Rickon could disappear completely as a wolf? Even in the show he seemed to be more in tune with his psychic ability than Bran, as he saw Ned after he was dead and knew Robb and Cat weren't coming back either.
I was really disappointed with how the show used Melisandre last season. It's clear she had an agenda with Jon but then took a completely hands off approach with him, exactly the opposite of how she was with Stannis.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Yea, it's so different at this point. Stannis sent Davos on a mission to find Rickon, so he can rally the north behind him. Davos is no where near Castle Black.
What irritated me most is that Davos asked Melisandre to bring Jon back in the show. Why? They had no relationship or connection. Had they even said a word to each other? And Davos hates both magic and Melisandre. All of season 2 he warned Stannis she was evil and did all he could to stop her from using blood magic from Gendry. After the shadow baby he swore he'd never help her again.
Then all of that's forgotten and he ask Melisandre to use the same magic he's despised the entire series to bring back someone he didn't know or give two shits about.
Queen Selyse and Princess Shireen are still alive and never left Castle Black in the books, so if someone would ask Melisandre to bring Jon back (she never left the wall either in the books), it seems likely it'd be Selyse. But she doesn't like Jon in the books, so I have no idea why Melisandre would all of a sudden give a shit about Jon other than she saw his death in her flames and warned him.
