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- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: The "real" box office
That list is a bit misleading in a number of ways. Gone With The Wind and other old films have had a ton of different releases in theaters. Gone With The Wind did not make $200m in 1939, which means adjusting from the 1939 ticket price is bullshit.
Meanwhile, Avatar had a huge boost from 3D. 75-80% of its ticket sales were 3D tickets. Those 3D tickets cost 30-40% more than a regular ticket. Its overall ticket sales were around 75-76 million, not the 95 million that Box Office Mojo claims. Their ticket calculator simply takes the average price for the year and divides the price into the dollar gross. But the guy who runs the site wrote an article where he said it had sold around 60.7 million tickets when it passed Titanic's $600m dollar gross. With a $9.90 average ticket price, you get 75.76 million tickets for a $750m gross.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=2667&p=.htm
Another misleading issue in favor of old movies is that there was zero competition from home video, never mind home theater. And there sure as hell wasn't Internet piracy either. Even Star Wars heavily benefited from the fact that home video wasn't in existence in 1977. People didn't know if they would be able to see the movie ever again, which is pretty strong incentive to keep watching it in theaters. Hence people that might see a movie 2-3 times in 2012 would see the same movie 10+ times in the 1970's and earlier.
My opinion is that Titanic had the most impressive run of all-time. It made $600m in 1997 dollars without any extra releases boosting it and it had to compete with home video (rentals especially), cable TV, and even bootlegging. This kind of shit simply didn't exist when Gone With The Wind made the vast majority of its money. Titanic didn't use a 3D gimmick like Avatar where it received a 20-25% boost in dollar gross over what it would have made without the gimmick.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: The "real" box office
Dude, downloading, wide screens and dvd's were not around in 1997
(Yes, we have become that old!). Least not enough to have any measurable effects.
Impressive sure, but not out of the ordinary.
Avatar is more surprising. Not just because of everything you said, but because it's such a shitty movie.
Home video was very prominent in 1997. Star Wars sure as shit didn't have to compete against that in 1977 and neither did Gone With The Wind. By the way, both of those films have had countless re-releases over the years, especially GWTW. Neither one of them accomplished their actual dollar gross in a single run, unlike Titanic which made $600m without any re-release.
Home video has had a huge impact on the industry. It's not a coincidence that the biggest ticket sellers ever didn't have to compete against the home video market (rental market especially). If you are a fan of a film and you think the theater is the only way you can watch it, you are going to see it over and over and over again. Getting someone to do that with full knowledge that they can rent it or buy it later on is very difficult. Getting them to do it in a market where there is no other option than the theater is a lot easier. This is what makes Titanic's run so incredible and there really isn't much explanation for it.
Axlin12, TDK would be around $590m when you properly account for its IMAX boost and then adjust for inflation. It made $533m in 2008 with IMAX boost included. Take out the IMAX boost and it would be around $500m, then adjust for ticket price inflation as of 2012. Ticket prices have gone up around 10.6% in the last 4 years.
Re: The "real" box office
The list does in fact take re releases into account.
If you go by ticket sales:
GWTW 200 mil
Star Wars 180
Titanic 140
Titanic has an additional 1.2b in dvd and rentals. Star Wars has approx 2b.
And it isnt like the kind of people that watches a movie 5+ times is going to stop doing that just because they can buy it on dvd later. I remember plenty of girls in my class that watched it 5-10 times.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: The "real" box office
The list does in fact take re releases into account.
If you go by ticket sales:
GWTW 200 mil
Star Wars 180
Titanic 140Titanic has an additional 1.2b in dvd and rentals. Star Wars has approx 2b.
And it isnt like the kind of people that watches a movie 5+ times is going to stop doing that just because they can buy it on dvd later. I remember plenty of girls in my class that watched it 5-10 times.
Of course they did and that just proves my point. They did it despite the knowledge that they could always wait to buy it. Back in the day, they didn't have much choice. I'm a big Batman fan and love the Burton/Nolan Bat movies. If home video wasn't around, I probably would have seen each of these films 20-30 times in theaters. Instead, I saw them each 3-6 times.
Re: The "real" box office
And why wouldn't that be true for SW or GWTW? One is the ultimate nerd experience, the other the quintessential love story.
Just because there's an effect doesn't mean that would translate to 70+ million tickets sold. There are a ton of different factors at work here. Budgets, promotion, the economy, culture, Cameron's rep, story based on a universally known and popular historic event etc.
And if we're basing impressive on a films ability to get people to part with their money there really isn't a contest: Star Wars. Original story, made on a low budget by an unknown director has spawned over $30 billion in revenue. Including a billion and a half just last year in toys and games.
Titanic has 1.2 bill in dvd and rentals. Star Wars has approx 2 bill, and that is years after the release. It might be more impressive than GWTW, but there's just no beating SW.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: The "real" box office
And why wouldn't that be true for SW or GWTW? One is the ultimate nerd experience, the other the quintessential love story.
If I wouldn't see the Burton/Nolan films 30 times in theaters because I always knew I could watch them later on home video, then the same thing applies to Star Wars nerds. I am a huge Bat fan. I've watched B89 around 1,000 times in my life. Doubt there are very many Star Wars nerds that are bigger fans of that franchise, but maybe I'm wrong.
And if we're basing impressive on a films ability to get people to part with their money there really isn't a contest: Star Wars. Original story, made on a low budget by an unknown director has spawned over $30 billion in revenue. Including a billion and a half just last year in toys and games.
Titanic has 1.2 bill in dvd and rentals. Star Wars has approx 2 bill, and that is years after the release. It might be more impressive than GWTW, but there's just no beating SW.
Star Wars turned out to be a merchandising bonanza for Lucas. Obviously it is a bigger cultural phenomenon than a single film about the Titanic, but Cameron's film had a more impressive single run at the box office. It made $600m in a single run with an average ticket price of $4.59, so 130 million tickets. Star Wars has had many re-releases over the years. In fact, many of them aren't even officially counted as re-releases by Box Office Mojo. According to its Wikipedia page, the original run in 1977 was $220m. With a 1977 average ticket price of $2.23, that would be 98.65 million tickets.
So Star Wars sold 98.65 million tickets in its first run before the home video era, before piracy, before cable TV. Titanic sold 130 million tickets in a single run while competing against cable TV and the home video market. Even though Titanic had a 24% higher population to draw from, it still sold 32% more tickets while going against a bunch of competition that no movie in 1977 had to worry about.
Re: The "real" box office
With the population rise your margins drop considerably and could very well be countered by the factors beside home video.
You don't have downloading but you have the internet. You have mtv and a significantly more professionalized publishing media. You have Cameron, DeCaprio and Dion - all big stars at the time. You have the biggest budget ever and a huge buzz about the special effects, long before release time. And you have a well known story that will get people interested from the get go. Cameron is perhaps the biggest director in the world when all of this is going on. A lot of people have fond and recent memories from True Lies, The Terminator and The Abyss. All automatic seat fillers.
And while home video definitely has had some effect you can't just take the whole cake and call it the difference. These things were around when Star Wars had rereleases too, still people went to see them at the theater. And why shouldn't they count anyway? There's a reason they happen, demand. Clearly Titanic doesn't have it.
Maybe you could call it the most impressive original run, but not complete run. Remember, SW came out of almost nothing. It was low budget, word of mouth with a "nothing" cast.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: The "real" box office
Maybe you could call it the most impressive original run, but not complete run.
Read my post again. I called it a more impressive single run.
