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- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: Chris Cornell: "Guns N 'Roses were all normal types minus one"
All that said, Slash has won..... Slash wins because without him in GNR, GNR will never be seen as GNR... Axl and Slash both know this. So in essence, Slash is the winner, his value is finally realized by all.. If anyone should do any "begging" its Axl... Slash don't need Axl, GNR needs Slash to be considered "legit" by the masses. If or when that happens, GNR will come back like nobodies business... They wouldn't need to do but one show like the 2007 O2 arena Led Zep show then record a few songs and bam, they are back. Axl's vocal limitations live would now be a concern... Unlike Mick Jagger and Biran Johnson, Axl can't sing his entire back catalog at that high of a level, but in the studio he can.
Good points, but you could say Axl won, cause he got the GN'R name that sells quite well.
Anyway, I think Slash won, cause he's alive. The guy is a natural born druggie - Axl's waiting game would have killed him 15 years ago. I'm happy that he left, cause we got a lot of amazing stuff from him, and there is still a chance to get more.
Re: Chris Cornell: "Guns N 'Roses were all normal types minus one"
polluxlm wrote:The point of no return was the night
and Duff signed over the rights to
. When Axl pulled the rug a few years later and Slash realized he was suddenly just an employee, he countered by simply refusing to do anything the boss asked.
Is that what happened though?
I'm sure slash was pissy about a few issues but I just got the impression it was communication between them that broke down.
What did he refuse to do? He's not an industrial guitarist, and he didn't quit after huge re-recorded his solo, and then he presented Axl with enough material for an entire album (snakepit1) that he says Axl rejected.
Axl's version is that he was told take it or leave it without changes....so it's possible maybe slash was encouraging Axl to hurry up as he wanted to get back out on the road and didn't want a chinese democracy style wait.
But I've never heard of Slash outright refusing to do stuff, even the UYI ballads he ended up playing on despite wanting a rock act, and he tollerated Dizzy being in the band despite originally not wanting a full time keys player.
But it's Axl who started not showing up in the studio, then rejecting music brought to him.
Also...I'm not so sure about this "trashing Axl in the press" thing people go on about...Axl trashes himself in the press when he walks off stage..when he fights with fans...when he shows up to a gig 2 hours late...all Slash did was stop apologising for these things once he'd left the band.
And that WAS slash's role. I remember when they came here in 93 and Slash was interviewed on the local nightly current affairs program and it was endless questions about how the band was racist, homophobic, starts riots, comes out late, pisses in planes, are a bunch of junkies. And only one of those problems was something Slash actually caused - but he's all friendly on the TV and parents let their kids go to the show.
I think that's where Axl's comments about him trying to take over the band comes from. After he lost the legal rights that was the only weapon he had, to go "you may have the legal rights, but I'm still Slash and I decide what we play cause in reality you are nothing without me".
Axl's version of the Snakepit record was that he was told, "this is the record, you sing and shut up". Yeah, they're all saying Axl wanted to do industrial stuff and whatnot, but you don't hear them saying he tried to force it on them. Axl claims this is what Slash did, and if we're to believe the top hat himself, Axl doesn't lie like that. Evidence it wasn't really about what music they were going to do or touring or whatever, but a power struggle.
I just don't buy the we tried everything we could but Axl was a dictator asshole so it didn't work out. There is some kind of reason why he hates Slash so much. Imo with him trying "to take over the band" (trying to use his real life popularity to level the score so to speak) in response to being made a mere employee seems a plausible situation given the info we have. Everybody kinda just assumed Axl was crazy over the years, but the recent patching ups with Duff, Izzy, Matt and Steven show that's probably not the whole story.
Whatever Axl may have been or done, he didn't really go to the press about it like some members of the band did. For years you had interviews with Slash calling him an asshole, it's his fault etc. Things were probably happening behind the scenes too. No doubt Axl viewed that as an attempt from Slash to destroy his image and chance of success with a new band.
Either way, as a former buddy Slash shouldn't have done that. And if he hadn't perhaps there would have been a possibility for a return back in 04/05 when Buckethead up and left.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Chris Cornell: "Guns N 'Roses were all normal types minus one"
Yeah I think it all just comes down to perspective.
I don't think Axl forced industrial stuff on them but it does seem from Duff's account that he wasn't too interested in anything else that was being shown to him. Meanwhile I'm sure Slash probably did give him a "shut up and sing" style ultimatum - but then he was desperate to get back on the road - (slash used touring to minimise his drug use back then) and he knew full well that Axl can and does take years to rearrange songs.
Although I suspect there was a bit of passive aggressiveness to it as you've implied - I mean on a human level - slash helped create the band and it's mostly his style that gave GNR it's guitar flavour...shit goes world famous...then he gets put into employee mode..and Axl stops being interested in guitar music.....how do you not be butt hurt in that scenario? I would be!
To me i don't think either of them are bad people - they are just like people that did what they had to do to survive - and people with some human failings.
For example:
* I don't think Axl could control his emotional outbursts at the time. He was just that upset about things. It's not like he was doing it to be an asshole. So given that - he needed to be in a situation where he can't be fired one night for having one of his meltdowns. He had to take control.
* Slash was addicted to drugs. He didn't have much in his life except guitar and heroin. In periods of activity his self abuse was less than when the band was disassembled. He needed the band to be touring and putting out records. He needed to be recording and creating guitar music - he needs a project that he is an integral part of. He can't just sit around indefinitely experimenting in other genres.
They're not bad people - they just did what had to be done.
Also...I think a lot of things are probably just misunderstandings....For example Axl says Slash lied to him about liking "My World" because Slash had an agenda to make Axl humiliate himself to the general public. I think Slash lied about liking My World - because he actually hates all electronic music - but I think it's more likely he just lied to keep the peace. What's to be achieved by telling your buddy you think his new work sucks? Especially if it's someone you know can get pretty emotional and you guys already don't always see eye to eye on stuff.
Re: Chris Cornell: "Guns N 'Roses were all normal types minus one"
Good post all things considered. Monkey pointed out things, so I'd only add that Axl organized those huge parties (you know, every night a different scene, like Ancient Rome etc.), he needed a private plane, he spent shitloads of money on videos to express his feelings with dolphins, and he forced the band to pay fortunes for curfews and riots.
They all had their faults and Axl cannot be blamed 100% for what happened with the band. But it's crystal clear that he lost his common sense, maybe even himself during the UYI days. He had no feet on the ground, he hated the tour, his bandmtes, the whole world. That killed Guns N' Roses. He had the chance to relaunch his career and redefine Guns N' Roses, but we all know how this turned out and he still hasn't grown up to take responsibility, but blames Slash for taking away 15 years of his life. That's why there is no hope for progress in GN'R land.
He's no Mick Jagger when it comes to money, that's for sure.
Only reason I prefer Axl is because he's somewhat more honest about things, but guy could definitely benefit from starting to take a little responsibility. Like you said, we get it you think Slash is a dick, get over it. You ain't perfect either.
He's kind of a tragic figure too. Got everything he wanted, but nobody's left and he can't do anything with it. He is GN'R but can't release an album because the label won't throw him enough cash without Slash and won't release an album because his replacement players aren't as good as his Appetite band.
Re: Chris Cornell: "Guns N 'Roses were all normal types minus one"
Also...I think a lot of things are probably just misunderstandings....For example Axl says Slash lied to him about liking "My World" because Slash had an agenda to make Axl humiliate himself to the general public. I think Slash lied about liking My World - because he actually hates all electronic music - but I think it's more likely he just lied to keep the peace. What's to be achieved by telling your buddy you think his new work sucks? Especially if it's someone you know can get pretty emotional and you guys already don't always see eye to eye on stuff.
I don't blame any of them, but that right there is why I'd rather be Axl's friend than Slash's. He didn't just say he liked it, he said he should put it on the album. Axl isn't the only one to talk about this passive aggressiveness from Slash and I've read his book too. I think it was most definitely an example of him subtly trying to get one up on Axl.
And you think Axl would throw a tantrum just because Slash didn't like some techno song he made for fun? Please, he's volatile but not that volatile. Of course he doesn't have to lie there. All that lying is the reason Axl won't trust a single word he says anymore.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Chris Cornell: "Guns N 'Roses were all normal types minus one"
^ No disrespect to Axl but on the wrong day I think anything could set him off. What about Slash's story of Axl jumping from a moving car when he tried to bring up the sleeping arrangements? Not saying Axl would go off about that song any day of the week - but if it was the day he was in an upset headspace already then anything could happen.
Also, it's possible Slash likes the song *for that style* - which is a style he doesn't like. Like how he said Chinese sounds like the perfect Axl album. He doesn't get it and he never will cos he only knows straight up guitar - but that doesn't mean he doesn't appreciate that something is well done. That's how I am about opera. I wouldn't sing or compose it. But if you play me an opera track you wrote and I can hear it's achieving that sound and doing what you wanted I might say it was good for what it is.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Chris Cornell: "Guns N 'Roses were all normal types minus one"
I guess I just see Slash's "lies" as more like botched attempts at diplomacy and /or discretion.
Meanwhile I think Axl always tells the truth - but it's what he perceives to be true - and his perception is quite unusual - which can result in him believing things other people don't think are true.
So i don't really see either of them as liars.
Re: Chris Cornell: "Guns N 'Roses were all normal types minus one"
All that said, Slash has won..... Slash wins because without him in GNR, GNR will never be seen as GNR... Axl and Slash both know this. So in essence, Slash is the winner, his value is finally realized by all.. If anyone should do any "begging" its Axl... Slash don't need Axl, GNR needs Slash to be considered "legit" by the masses. If or when that happens, GNR will come back like nobodies business... They wouldn't need to do but one show like the 2007 O2 arena Led Zep show then record a few songs and bam, they are back. Axl's vocal limitations live would now be a concern... Unlike Mick Jagger and Biran Johnson, Axl can't sing his entire back catalog at that high of a level, but in the studio he can.
That's completely based on how you view things. Is Slash selling 20 million albums these days? Alright, who is? But you get my point. Just because GNR isn't AS successful. Slash isn't either. So why is he the "winner"?
It's not about who "won" anyway. I honestly don't think they were meant to be together for the long term. Hell, Slash's health was in serious decline in GNR's heyday. Who knows what would've happened if he stayed put. Maybe the breakup was needed for both sides, as much as it may have hurt the brand, and us as fans. I'd rather have current day Guns and solo Slash than nothing at all. That's just me though. 
Re: Chris Cornell: "Guns N 'Roses were all normal types minus one"
I personally don't think Chris was slagging Axl. I think Chris was just pointing out what everyone thought at the time. They were the biggest rock band on the planet, everyone loved them and their music, and for whatever reason Axl had some issue where he just couldn't operate with the rest of the band. It's sad, because of how big they were.
Seems like pretty much historical fact. Where did Chris slag Axl?
- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: Chris Cornell: "Guns N 'Roses were all normal types minus one"
Seems like pretty much historical fact. Where did Chris slag Axl?
Exactly. Same as all the supposed rants Slash had on Axl - they don't exist, at least not at the level claimed by some. Izzy was far more damning.
People get too uptight on Axl's behalf and assign him all sorts of leeway because he is seen as "sensitive" or "prone to depression".
Like Axl's recent whinge that Duff & Slash killed his creativity for years. No they didn't. You killed your own creativity because of your huge paranoia and elongated bouts of self pity & indulgence.
Axl never ever seems to have thought through how the other guys must have felt, feeling like they had no choice but to quit the band that defined their lives. They lost just as much as him, if not more. Did they sit at home and feel sorry for themselves? No. They rebuilt. It took both men years to do so but they did it.
Back to Chris, he described the situation as "sad". He's spot on, it was and it still is. Not one man from the old band "won" anything. They have great lives, but their legacy is one of missed opportunities and squandered talent.
