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- Communist China
- Rep: 130
Re: Chick-fil-A Controversy
I think you guys are being flippant and kind of cruel if your posts represent your true feelings here. I grew up without religion and so had no problem accepting homosexuals as I would any other different sort of person. But if you grew up in a strongly protestant Christian town in a protestant Christian family, and all the important adults in your childhood held those beliefs, then I'm not going to call them "crazy" or "stupid" for holding on to them. The social acceptance of homosexuals has changed dramatically over the last 25 years, in fact I can't name another group of people who so quickly went from stigmatized to largely celebrated in American society. And that's great - but you have to expect people with 'traditional' values to feel threatened by it. It's natural. And when you start boycotting Chick Fil A, I think they every reason to feel like their worldview is under attack. Because it's chicken! Don't politicize chicken, please. Mill's timeless arguments for free speech in On Liberty were targeted not just at government, but at the cultural values of the Victorian era that shunned deviants. When you refuse to do business with someone because of their political views, you're demonstrating intolerance. Chick Fil A doesn't discriminate in hiring or service, they just happen to be forthright with the values they advocate for in the public sphere. It's not like they're engaging in child slavery like Nestle.
I think the LGBTQ movement is struggling to adapt their tactics to their new general acceptance in American society. You don't have mayors trying to evict all the gays from their cities anymore, but you do have mayors trying to evict Chick Fil A for its Baptist beliefs. That's the intolerance I'm worried about. And anyone with a belief in the marketplace of ideas can't be happy to see people being told 'shut up about your beliefs or don't live here', which is essentially what Chicago, Boston, and several city council members of Philadelphia said. Liberal science doesn't work that way, everyone has to participate.
One last general LGBTQ point: Some people consider opposition to gay marriage the same as bigotry. It's not. There's perfectly legitimate arguments against gay marriage outside of homosexuality's alleged immorality, and just in case you've not ever heard it, here goes: marriage is only dealt with by the State (government) so it can be treated differently in the tax code. This is because there's considered to be many positive externalities from child-rearing married couples. Homosexual marriages, while capable of raising children, in most cases simply do not. So extending the same subsidy to them would not reap the same benefits. Another legitimate argument: Marriage is an inherently religious term, and so should be reserved for religions. The State should enforce contracts, and people can call those contracts what they like, but the State has no authority to say who is married and who isn't. Rather than extending state-marriage to gay couples, we should repeal it from straight couples and return the concept of marriage to its rightful religious place.
I don't find either of those arguments convincing, because of the tangible impacts people experience through the legal discrimination and the entrenchment of marriage in the State, but they aren't bigoted or ludicrous or even bad arguments. So don't immediately assume that support for traditional marriage equates with bigotry or idiocy.
Re: Chick-fil-A Controversy
The guy has absolutely every right to say God is going to unleash his wrath because of gays marrying. And if someone thinks the guy who owns Chick-fil-A is a douche for saying it, that's their right to boycott them. And the owner of Chick-fil-A donates millons of dollars to groups that want to outlaw homosexuality, so it's not as nice and innocent as all that.
Maybe the Baptists need to be treated like gays for a while, to understand what it feels like when the shoe is on the other foot.
Last but not least, let's not act like Christians are a persecuted people here. They have real political power that they use to set their own agendas. They legislate with it every day. They run nearly everything in the south. They set all the rules. They have no problem telling people who don't agree with them to get out of town; to boycott them, to hurt them finacially, and yes, even physically. With a group of people still having issues with blacks, gays are nowhere near close to being accepted. There is more compassion (which drives them mad) for gays, people are more sensitive, but there isn't this open-armed acceptance you seem to think there is, let alone being celebrated. This is a group of people who openly EMBRACE discrimination. There's consequences to that.
When there are no more sodomy laws, when Mosque's aren't banned fom being built in baptist communities, when gays and Muslims aren't targeted for political attacks, and when gay teens aren't being bullied for just being gay, and there aren't Christian camps to turn gay kids straight, then get back to me.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Chick-fil-A Controversy
Look, what was annoying to me is I am running a business stuck in fucking traffic out the ass cause the Chic fil a up the road is so fucking packed the line for the drive through poured out into the 6 lane highway. I love chic fil a food, but I will be damned if I am gonna wait 2 hours for a chicken sandwich, make chic fil a richer to proclaim, "I support chic fil a". There are fucking more important things going down than this stupid shit that made me late, affecting my business.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Chick-fil-A Controversy
Mr. ID, some fair points, but turn on MSNBC and the Muslims are victims and the Christains are the terrorists.
Re: Chick-fil-A Controversy
Mr. ID, some fair points, but turn on MSNBC and the Muslims are victims and the Christains are the terrorists.
I've never seen anything like that on MSNBC.
I did hear a fox host once say: 'Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims." Which is complete, racist horseshit.
- Me_Wise_Magic
- Rep: 70
Re: Chick-fil-A Controversy
Completely agree. Some news shows are full of shit and biased opinions with some sort of an agenda.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Chick-fil-A Controversy
Mr. ID, again, all the terrorists from 911 were Muslim. The guy on the army base in Texas was a Muslim too. The shoe bomber, Muslim, the bomb in London, Muslim. The train in Spain, Muslim, 93 world trade center, Muslim, Pan Am flight in the 80's, Muslims, USS Cole, Muslim. For every one Timothy McVei, there are hundreds of Muslim terrorist attempts. Those are the facts. There are no Mexican terrorist cells (not counting drug cartels) that I know about or Canadian terrorist cells. But there are terrorist cells in both countries comprised of, you guessed it, Muslims.
Re: Chick-fil-A Controversy
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/sik … 02467.html
You were saying?
And that's not including the abortion clinics bombed every year and abortion doctors killed, and Mosque fires that don't get reported on the national news, inculding MSNBC. And what about the massacre in Norway, was he Muslim? No... He was a right wing Christian, and a proud terrorist.
Please, it's not even close. These are the facts. There are much more domestic Right Wing Christian terrorist cells, most desquised as militias, in this country than Islamic. And the fact McVei didn't act alone, that there was a network that supported him, should tell you soemthing. And I'm actually not counting neo nazi skinhead groups and the klan who commit acts of terrorism all the time.
If you have a problem with a news agency reporting discrimination against Muslims, including Bachman calling out innocent Muslim Americans as being part of the Muslim brotherhood recently, and the outright racism people have shown Muslims, and, as pointed out by the CIA, domestic right wing terrorism is on the rise... If you have a problem with this, YOU are the one with the problem.
