Current Events Thread

mitchejw

slashsfro wrote:

mitchejw wrote:
Also, I'm reading that corporate donations have basically ceased to Republicans. I'm not exactly what that means...does it mean that all Republicans are losing donors?
Yes and no. A fair number of these corps have specified that they will stop donating to those lawmakers who objected to the certification of the election results.
On the other hand, there are those businesses like Facebook, Microsoft, and Google who have just stopped donating period.

What about Trump losing PGA championships? Relationship with Duetch Bank is over....i can't think of the others at the moment.

monkeychow

For the record, my post the other day calling for more friendly discussion was directed to the whole group (including me) not specifically aimed at any one individual poster more than the others.

I'm a little to the right on some issues and a little to the left on others.

While I'm sure how I feel about some things, I like to think I'm still open to reason and logic, and so it's interesting to me to hear both sides of a political discussion to see where I land on each issue.

But when we get into insulting each other and just shit posting back and forth it just kinda takes away from what would otherwise be a quality thread.

It's crazy thinking what James said too....we've known each other for decades it's kinda nuts. Like I took a rather extended absence recently...but this place is still kinda home when I come back.

IRISH OS1R1S

All good monkey.
Most of us knew you were saying it to everyone and were trying to calm the situation.

Smoking Guns

No need to fundraise right now. This is the dead period.

monkeychow

Here's my current thinking:

1. Trump is a person with some character flaws and I do not agree with a number of his policies.

2. Despite his flaws, for the duration of his term I do not think he has been treated fairly by the media. That said I also think Obama was treated badly by the right wing sections of the media - however the general hysteria around not accepting Trump as president and the daily attacks some reasonable and some not from all sides were beyond anything I've seen in my lifetime.

3. Trump responded to this by acting in a way that made it worse. So we have a feedback loop - where the media got more and more aggressively anti trump and trump got more anti media.

4. Then online, Social media itself creates "yes/no" thinking, simple rather than detailed conversations, and the algorithms to maximise your engagement send you more of stuff you approve of - sending people into rabbit holes of idea reinforcement.

5. I believe the combinations of these things together have brought us to the strange state of affairs we have now where everyone is divided into two camps. Both sides think they are the true patriots. The left thinks the right are deplorable and the right thinks the left is crazy.

Here's my problem with the impeachment:

1. The attack of the capitol is totally unacceptable.

2. Trump's speech did not call for any violence and in-fact used several phrases that directly suggest the opposite.

3. Before being de-platformed Trump tweeted twice saying while he understood the anger and the frustration and while he also does't accept the election result there can not be violence and that his party stands for law and order and respecting authority etc.

4. It may be that the far right groups who staged the assault were motivated by Trumps claims of a phoney election despite his calls for peace. However, if this is the case, it should be noted that senior figures from the left claimed the previous election 2016 was hijacked for several years.

5. Likewise radicals from the left staged violent incidents in the preceding years - including things like violently capturing a city block, driving out police, and declaring it a seperate society. While some of the triggering incidents (floyd) are understandable, no political figures from the left have been held responsible for their ideology creating radicals when there have been crimes to the extent that we now seem to be suggesting figures on the right are responsible for the existence of right extremists. Additionally some on the left made statements that are questionable - such as the suggestion to confront trump cabinet members when they are seen in shops etc.

Looking at that wider context - and while I think there's a lot of regrettable things about Trump - I just don't get the logic of he can be fairly blamed for what happened at the capitol.

He's really only done the same tactics that the other side has been using, and there's no doubt to me that in another scenario we could easily see a similar incident based around the left.

What's really disturbing to me - is that despite the above - and despite actively calling for no violence - he's going to be impeached for inciting violence.

It's almost like we're all so outraged about this that what actually happened doesn't seem to matter anymore. I find it really disconcerting. I'm not even a Trump fan but the way this has all played out simply doesn't make sense.

FlashFlood

monkeychow wrote:

Here's my current thinking:
1. Trump is a person with some character flaws and I do not agree with a number of his policies.
2. Despite his flaws, for the duration of his term I do not think he has been treated fairly by the media. That said I also think Obama was treated badly by the right wing sections of the media - however the general hysteria around not accepting Trump as president and the daily attacks some reasonable and some not from all sides were beyond anything I've seen in my lifetime.
3. Trump responded to this by acting in a way that made it worse. So we have a feedback loop - where the media got more and more aggressively anti trump and trump got more anti media.
4. Then online, Social media itself creates "yes/no" thinking, simple rather than detailed conversations, and the algorithms to maximise your engagement send you more of stuff you approve of - sending people into rabbit holes of idea reinforcement.
5. I believe the combinations of these things together have brought us to the strange state of affairs we have now where everyone is divided into two camps. Both sides think they are the true patriots. The left thinks the right are deplorable and the right thinks the left is crazy.
Here's my problem with the impeachment:
1. The attack of the capitol is totally unacceptable.
2. Trump's speech did not call for any violence and in-fact used several phrases that directly suggest the opposite.
3. Before being de-platformed Trump tweeted twice saying while he understood the anger and the frustration and while he also does't accept the election result there can not be violence and that his party stands for law and order and respecting authority etc.
4. It may be that the far right groups who staged the assault were motivated by Trumps claims of a phoney election despite his calls for peace. However, if this is the case, it should be noted that senior figures from the left claimed the previous election 2016 was hijacked for several years.
5. Likewise radicals from the left staged violent incidents in the preceding years - including things like violently capturing a city block, driving out police, and declaring it a seperate society. While some of the triggering incidents (floyd) are understandable, no political figures from the left have been held responsible for their ideology creating radicals when there have been crimes to the extent that we now seem to be suggesting figures on the right are responsible for the existence of right extremists. Additionally some on the left made statements that are questionable - such as the suggestion to confront trump cabinet members when they are seen in shops etc.
Looking at that wider context - and while I think there's a lot of regrettable things about Trump - I just don't get the logic of he can be fairly blamed for what happened at the capitol.
He's really only done the same tactics that the other side has been using, and there's no doubt to me that in another scenario we could easily see a similar incident based around the left.
What's really disturbing to me - is that despite the above - and despite actively calling for no violence - he's going to be impeached for inciting violence.
It's almost like we're all so outraged about this that what actually happened doesn't seem to matter anymore. I find it really disconcerting. I'm not even a Trump fan but the way this has all played out simply doesn't make sense.

Good, thoughtful post. My disgust with Trump is based on his playing to the worst, most bigoted parts of American that, while always existed, lay dormant amongst most discussion prior to his arrival. No president has ever, ever done as much to instigate hate in this country, from both sides. He did this. This is the bed he is sleeping in. No reaction from media or others is unfair.

mitchejw

monkeychow wrote:

Here's my current thinking:
1. Trump is a person with some character flaws and I do not agree with a number of his policies.
2. Despite his flaws, for the duration of his term I do not think he has been treated fairly by the media. That said I also think Obama was treated badly by the right wing sections of the media - however the general hysteria around not accepting Trump as president and the daily attacks some reasonable and some not from all sides were beyond anything I've seen in my lifetime.
3. Trump responded to this by acting in a way that made it worse. So we have a feedback loop - where the media got more and more aggressively anti trump and trump got more anti media.
4. Then online, Social media itself creates "yes/no" thinking, simple rather than detailed conversations, and the algorithms to maximise your engagement send you more of stuff you approve of - sending people into rabbit holes of idea reinforcement.
5. I believe the combinations of these things together have brought us to the strange state of affairs we have now where everyone is divided into two camps. Both sides think they are the true patriots. The left thinks the right are deplorable and the right thinks the left is crazy.
Here's my problem with the impeachment:
1. The attack of the capitol is totally unacceptable.
2. Trump's speech did not call for any violence and in-fact used several phrases that directly suggest the opposite.
3. Before being de-platformed Trump tweeted twice saying while he understood the anger and the frustration and while he also does't accept the election result there can not be violence and that his party stands for law and order and respecting authority etc.
4. It may be that the far right groups who staged the assault were motivated by Trumps claims of a phoney election despite his calls for peace. However, if this is the case, it should be noted that senior figures from the left claimed the previous election 2016 was hijacked for several years.
5. Likewise radicals from the left staged violent incidents in the preceding years - including things like violently capturing a city block, driving out police, and declaring it a seperate society. While some of the triggering incidents (floyd) are understandable, no political figures from the left have been held responsible for their ideology creating radicals when there have been crimes to the extent that we now seem to be suggesting figures on the right are responsible for the existence of right extremists. Additionally some on the left made statements that are questionable - such as the suggestion to confront trump cabinet members when they are seen in shops etc.
Looking at that wider context - and while I think there's a lot of regrettable things about Trump - I just don't get the logic of he can be fairly blamed for what happened at the capitol.
He's really only done the same tactics that the other side has been using, and there's no doubt to me that in another scenario we could easily see a similar incident based around the left.
What's really disturbing to me - is that despite the above - and despite actively calling for no violence - he's going to be impeached for inciting violence.
It's almost like we're all so outraged about this that what actually happened doesn't seem to matter anymore. I find it really disconcerting. I'm not even a Trump fan but the way this has all played out simply doesn't make sense.

This is clearly a well thought out post monkey and there's a lot in there that no one could disagree with...

But when someone shows you who they are...you should believe them. Trump is used to being the guy in charge and the only guy in charge. He wants it that way. That's why he cozied up to the other world leaders that he did.

He is intolerant of criticism and he's intolerant of the checks and balances carried out by our government institutions.

Furthermore, I blame him for the media issues. He was too petty to take the high road. He's not the first to be criticized by the press. Who cares who started it? If he has time to tweet all day and bully media then he's not doing his job.

Finally, he wasn't sincere or genuine ever. This was all a game for him. He's not a conservative, he's not a small government guy...he's just a president who likes to troll his own people.

I watched an interview of his from the 90s awhile back and it was the lynch pin in my judgment of him. He spoke of how part of his business practice is to gain revenge on people, sometimes multiple times for the same act. He still holds a grudge and keeps score from things that happened a decade ago.

I have memories of him as a child because I loved WWF and he was a big part of the early days of the 80s WWF. He appeared and reappeared fairly often from the 80s to the 10s. Maybe I'm in the minority but what you do before you become president matter.

You cannot bully everyone into supporting you forever.

Smoking Guns

Trump was treated unfairly and proved most of the media and politicians wrong on policy. Everyone said there would be WW3 with Trump, nope.

Other countries in NATO pay more
Wiped our Isis
Rocket Man chilled out
Peace in Middle East

So much shit that Obama said was impossible became possible. Trump had bad presentation but he was a good president when you look at his policy.

IRISH OS1R1S

I just want to point out the he didn't actually have to say exactly "go wreck the capitol building" to cause incitement. He implied things that given the circumstances he should not have said. We need to stop pretending Trump is brainless when it suits us. He knew what he was saying and doing.

Impeachment is a much lower standard than a criminal conviction also.

mitchejw

Smoking Guns wrote:

Trump was treated unfairly and proved most of the media and politicians wrong on policy. Everyone said there would be WW3 with Trump, nope.
Other countries in NATO pay more
Wiped our Isis
Rocket Man chilled out
Peace in Middle East
So much shit that Obama said was impossible became possible. Trump had bad presentation but he was a good president when you look at his policy.

These claims are opinions. Isis still exists and Rocket Man still shoots rockets...you just don't hear about in the fake liberal media anymore.

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