You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Re: War in Syria
Was just wondering if someone can explain to me the rationale for the US attacking Syria. I see no good to come from it.
Yes the use of chemical weapons is terrible but then so are many atrocities performed by many regimes around the world that don't provoke any action from the international community. So I have to conclude that it is obviously for more strategic regional reasons.
But the rebels they will essentially be supporting are hardline Islamic extremists? What benefit will removing the Assad regime have. Sure they Saudi's hate them and they will be pleased with it but that's only a moral win really.
What is the end goal here? All I see it doing is continuing to add tension to the whole region and piss more people off. It seems to me the best thing to do would be to leave the lot of them in that region to self destruct over their stupid religion and ideals.
What's the general feeling of the people in the US are they for or against this?
Re: War in Syria
Was just wondering if someone can explain to me the rationale for the US attacking Syria. I see no good to come from it.
Yes the use of chemical weapons is terrible but then so are many atrocities performed by many regimes around the world that don't provoke any action from the international community. So I have to conclude that it is obviously for more strategic regional reasons.
But the rebels they will essentially be supporting are hardline Islamic extremists? What benefit will removing the Assad regime have. Sure they Saudi's hate them and they will be pleased with it but that's only a moral win really.
What is the end goal here? All I see it doing is continuing to add tension to the whole region and piss more people off. It seems to me the best thing to do would be to leave the lot of them in that region to self destruct over their stupid religion and ideals.
What's the general feeling of the people in the US are they for or against this?
Everyone I've spoken to about this, and it's been quite a few people because its on everyone's mind, don't want this to happen. There's no immediate threat to us, we should stop getting involved in the business of others, and no one wants to help al qaeda.
I think the official reason for this is to discourage the use of weapons deemed to be inhuman. And it's a scary thought, it they're allowed to be used, and they start being used more and more, something really scary is bound to happen eventually.
It is a strategic location though, I know the Russians have a military base there, and I assume it's there for a reason. I've read some bloggers suggest that the motives behind most of the US's actions in the area have been to surround Russia and China with military assets.
But, this may all just be happening because the US has backed itself into a corner. A big part of the US's foreign policy has been human rights, it's how we justify most of what we do abroad. The use of chemical weapons is something they've said they wouldn't tolerate and now they've got to back up tough words with action. If they don't, they lose a degree of influence.
- IRISH OS1R1S
- Rep: 59
Re: War in Syria
"I think the official reason for this is to discourage the use of weapons deemed to be inhuman."
Yes because napalm and many many other weapons never fell in to this category.
I personally am so sick of this crap. Mind your own business. If Syrians want to kill each other so be it, let them do it.
I don't remember anyone trying to sort out Rwanda when their goverment was slaughtering their own people.
I wonder why?
Re: War in Syria
"I think the official reason for this is to discourage the use of weapons deemed to be inhuman."
Yes because napalm and many many other weapons never fell in to this category.
I personally am so sick of this crap. Mind your own business. If Syrians want to kill each other so be it, let them do it.
I don't remember anyone trying to sort out Rwanda when their goverment was slaughtering their own people.
I wonder why?
I'm fucking sick of this attitude toward the US, I have to hear this non-stop every time I visit Europe, and it's shit.
There is no doubt that upholding international law is the right thing to do. Failure to do so undermines the UN
and their collective security system, and makes everyone less safe.
But the US is demonized when we act, and then we're demonized when we don't act. It's bullshit.
And napalm is illegal in fact, it was made illegal by the UN in 1980 and the US hasn't used it since. Further, the US didn't go into Rwanda because Somalia was a cluster fuck, and our leaders at the time were reluctant to send more of our troops into the slaughter.
- IRISH OS1R1S
- Rep: 59
Re: War in Syria
I'm fucking sick of this attitude toward the US, I have to hear this non-stop every time I visit Europe, and it's shit.
Maybe you could consider all those people who you have to listen to none stop actually have a valid point.
There is no doubt that upholding international law is the right thing to do. Failure to do so undermines the UN
and their collective security system, and makes everyone less safe.
Attacking Syria right now is not upholding international law. In fact it is breaking international law, no UN resolution has been made to allow attacks as of yet.
And napalm is illegal in fact, it was made illegal by the UN in 1980 and the US hasn't used it since.
Mark 77 bomb, I guess it has a different name so that's ok then? The phosphorus bombs (classed as chemical weapons) and uranium weapons used in Falluja too? I guess chemical weapons are ok depending on who uses them.
Further, the US didn't go into Rwanda because Somalia was a cluster fuck, and our leaders at the time were reluctant to send more of our troops into the slaughter.
I prefer to think the more logical reason was the lack of strategic importance and or beneficial resources in Rwanda.
Anyway we could go around and round on this subject, but I said how I feel on the subject. We will just have to agree to disagree.
Re: War in Syria
RaZor wrote:I'm fucking sick of this attitude toward the US, I have to hear this non-stop every time I visit Europe, and it's shit.
Maybe you could consider all those people who you have to listen to none stop actually have a valid point.
There is no doubt that upholding international law is the right thing to do. Failure to do so undermines the UN
and their collective security system, and makes everyone less safe.Attacking Syria right now is not upholding international law. In fact it is breaking international law, no UN resolution has been made to allow attacks as of yet.
And napalm is illegal in fact, it was made illegal by the UN in 1980 and the US hasn't used it since.
Mark 77 bomb, I guess it has a different name so that's ok then? The phosphorus bombs (classed as chemical weapons) and uranium weapons used in Falluja too? I guess chemical weapons are ok depending on who uses them.
Further, the US didn't go into Rwanda because Somalia was a cluster fuck, and our leaders at the time were reluctant to send more of our troops into the slaughter.
I prefer to think the more logical reason was the lack of strategic importance and or beneficial resources in Rwanda.
Anyway we could go around and round on this subject, but I said how I feel on the subject. We will just have to agree to disagree.
It's not illegal to make war without a UN resolution, and chemical weapons can be used legally against enemy combatants, it's is illegal to use them against civilians which is what happened on Syria.
Also, the opinion that you choose to have makes me want nothing more to bring every US troop home and return to our isolationist ways, not because I think you're right, but because I think you're ungrateful.
Ungrateful that when the US goes to war to protect natural resources, it's not becuse we need them, but it's for the benefit of the free world and the free market. Ungrateful that surrounding Russia and China with military assets is probably the only thing keeping them from rolling over Europe and South East Asia respectively. Ungrateful that the American tax payer spends so much on defense, that the rest of your countries don't have to and get to be free riders on the Pax Americana. And Ungrateful for all the America blood spilled to save the world from fascism and than communism.
Re: War in Syria
It's not illegal to make war without a UN resolution, and chemical weapons can be used legally against enemy combatants, it's is illegal to use them against civilians which is what happened on Syria.
Also, the opinion that you choose to have makes me want nothing more to bring every US troop home and return to our isolationist ways, not because I think you're right, but because I think you're ungrateful.
This argument comes up a lot. There are two fundamentally different world views going on here.
You're saying RaZor that Osiris should be happy that the US is helping out with international issues.
Osiris would be just as unhappy with France right about now who are also helping out.
He's not anti-american intervention. He's anti-war. He's asking why a boatload more of our fellow man are going to have to die because this docuhe Assad decided he was gonna gas some of his people.
You two aren't gonna agree.
You're both fighting a a different argument.
You're happy for people to die to prove a point. He's not.
Ungrateful that when the US goes to war to protect natural resources, it's not becuse we need them, but it's for the benefit of the free world and the free market.
Big statement. Nobody outside of the policy makers will ever know this for sure.
Ungrateful that surrounding Russia and China with military assets is probably the only thing keeping them from rolling over Europe and South East Asia respectively.
Huh? The cold war that made enemies of Russia and America is long forgotten in europe.
Ungrateful that the American tax payer spends so much on defense, that the rest of your countries don't have to and get to be free riders on the Pax Americana.
Again you're arguing here that America are doing this on Europe's behalf.
They're not.
Britain and France were representing the EU in this.
Britain have pulled out because a democratic vote determined that they had right to go into Syria.
France on the other hand are chomping at the bit to go into Syria. It was French intelligence that killed Gadaffi lately too.
And Ungrateful for all the America blood spilled to save the world from fascism and than communism.
Point 1- Fascism:
A lot more European than Americans died in WW2 and it was a collaborative effort that won that war.
There were twice as many Japanese CIVILLIAN deaths from the US dick measuring exercises Nagasaki and Hiroshima than US MILITARY deaths over the entire war. Just think about that. Thousands of innocent people evaporated long after the war had been won in Europe.
Point 2 Communism:
America didn't save the world from Communism. America and Russia, the two biggest super-egos on the planet, decided work out their difference like spoiled children for half a century. Don't kid yourself communism failed en massé due to internal abuses.
The communist system is better and fairer than the capitalist system in theory. The problem with communism is that it requires a level of egailty and fairness from the people at the top that most people don't seem to have. We shouldn't be proud that communism fell. It speaks volumes about the fickle and self-serving nature of the human spirit.
The capitalist system on the other hand requires that people BE what they are: self-serving and greedy.
Capitalism works because we, the people who pursue the capitalist ideal, are jealous self-serving individuals.
It's a black mark on the history of the human race that we did not care enough about our fellow man to make communism work, but would rather fight and compete with one another at every turn instead.
Fuck man. It really annoys me when people talk about a system that was designed to bring justice, fairness and brotherhood to the masses as if it were evil. The people who ran it were fucktards, that's the problem.
Capitalism works because it's adapted to the fucktard mentality that we all seem to have.
Depressing.
Re: War in Syria
RaZor wrote:It's not illegal to make war without a UN resolution, and chemical weapons can be used legally against enemy combatants, it's is illegal to use them against civilians which is what happened on Syria.
Also, the opinion that you choose to have makes me want nothing more to bring every US troop home and return to our isolationist ways, not because I think you're right, but because I think you're ungrateful.
This argument comes up a lot. There are two fundamentally different world views going on here.
You're saying RaZor that Osiris should be happy that the US is helping out with international issues.
Osiris would be just as unhappy with France right about now who are also helping out.
He's not anti-american intervention. He's anti-war. He's asking why a boatload more of our fellow man are going to have to die because this docuhe Assad decided he was gonna gas some of his people.You two aren't gonna agree.
You're both fighting a a different argument.
You're happy for people to die to prove a point. He's not.RaZor wrote:Ungrateful that when the US goes to war to protect natural resources, it's not becuse we need them, but it's for the benefit of the free world and the free market.
Big statement. Nobody outside of the policy makers will ever know this for sure.
RaZor wrote:Ungrateful that surrounding Russia and China with military assets is probably the only thing keeping them from rolling over Europe and South East Asia respectively.
Huh? The cold war that made enemies of Russia and America is long forgotten in europe.
RaZor wrote:Ungrateful that the American tax payer spends so much on defense, that the rest of your countries don't have to and get to be free riders on the Pax Americana.
Again you're arguing here that America are doing this on Europe's behalf.
They're not.Britain and France were representing the EU in this.
Britain have pulled out because a democratic vote determined that they had right to go into Syria.
France on the other hand are chomping at the bit to go into Syria. It was French intelligence that killed Gadaffi lately too.RaZor wrote:And Ungrateful for all the America blood spilled to save the world from fascism and than communism.
Point 1- Fascism:
A lot more European than Americans died in WW2 and it was a collaborative effort that won that war.There were twice as many Japanese CIVILLIAN deaths from the US dick measuring exercises Nagasaki and Hiroshima than US MILITARY deaths over the entire war. Just think about that. Thousands of innocent people evaporated long after the war had been won in Europe.
Point 2 Communism:
America didn't save the world from Communism. America and Russia, the two biggest super-egos on the planet, decided work out their difference like spoiled children for half a century. Don't kid yourself communism failed en massé due to internal abuses.The communist system is better and fairer than the capitalist system in theory. The problem with communism is that it requires a level of egailty and fairness from the people at the top that most people don't seem to have. We shouldn't be proud that communism fell. It speaks volumes about the fickle and self-serving nature of the human spirit.
The capitalist system on the other hand requires that people BE what they are: self-serving and greedy.
Capitalism works because we, the people who pursue the capitalist ideal, are jealous self-serving individuals.It's a black mark on the history of the human race that we did not care enough about our fellow man to make communism work, but would rather fight and compete with one another at every turn instead.
Fuck man. It really annoys me when people talk about a system that was designed to bring justice, fairness and brotherhood to the masses as if it were evil. The people who ran it were fucktards, that's the problem.
Capitalism works because it's adapted to the fucktard mentality that we all seem to have.Depressing.
I don't wish anyone to be hurt for any reason, let alone to prove a point.
Osiris's comments aren't anti war. There were a critique directed at the US, first critiquing them for going to war and then critiquing them for not doing so. That's not anti-war, that's just anti American.
Saying that the US going to war to secure natural resources benefits every country isn't a bold statement, it's a cold hard fact of the global economy.
My comments about Russia and China are assumptions, but they are common sense. They are regional powers that are actively trying to expand their geopolitical influence, removing a global US presence means removing a major obstacle in their way to doing it.
As far a Communism being a fairer system than Capitalism, that is very much debatable. What isn't debatable is that that Capitalism is the system most conducive to individual freedom. Consider that while you're singing the praises of communism on paper, your advocating an economic system that will lead you back to serfdom.
Further, in this day and age, Communism vs Capitalsm should be a dead debate. I can't beleive we're seriously having it.
