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- killingvector
- Rep: 21
Re: what are we disappointed with?
I think there are many parts to this equation and people here have picked up vital reasons why this album has not caught on. I believe what is going on is the downward marketability of Axl's GnR. Not just for this record, but for pretty much the rest of the journey....unless he can change perceptions of who he is, what this new band is, and what happened to the old band.
Back in 91/92, each UYI album sold 1 million copies first week, an astounding number. No one ever believed that this record could do that business, but few of us really expected the magnitude of the drop off we are now seeing in 2008.
1. I really think as many as one out of every two GnR fans in 91/92 were essentially riding the wave of the band's success. And when the bandwagon came to a halt, so did their support. It is not unreasonable for me to consider a 50% rate of attrition in fanbase over the last 15 years essentially due to shifting tastes, maturation, and/or latching onto the next big thing. See Gwen, Kanye, L'il Wayne...ect. This loss is at no fault t.o the album's musical selection or quality
2. The portion of the GnR fanbase enthusiastically supportive of Slash did not show up to support this new record. The schism in GnR has never really healed and there are still fans who take the side of Slash/Duff in the break up.
3. The perception that Axl was the cause of the break up due to his enormous ego has really found traction in the perception of many music fans. The fact that he dared take the name and move forward without the old guys no doubt has fueled concerns that GnR suffered through a tyrannical military take over and really is nothing more than a vanity project.
4. Axl has self inflicted severe wounds to his own reputation since the new band was launched : 2002 VMAs; 2002 Riot show; 2002 tour cancellation; departure of Robin, Bucket, Brain. . . Each one of these incidents has fueled the perception that he is mentally or physically unable to function any more, perhaps even to the point of being washed up.
5. The marketing of this opus has been dreadful. No pressers, no videos, no performances, tepid print and TV media campaign, average first single, lack of push for the second single. . . Even the exclusive deal was a disaster in waiting; BB rolled out an army of knockdown displays and within a week they were dismantled. Both the band and label went out of their way to make the album hard enough to find then never gave anyone a reason to get it.
This is not to say that quality isn't there. The album is truly a thoughtful and grand vision with many different styles but ultimately bound by the sound of a prototypical GnR record. But the facts may be that Axl has little control over the perceptions in the music world today and that the market for an Axl led GnR is substantially smaller than the one he took for granted 15 years ago.
Re: what are we disappointed with?
Outside of the lack of promotion and talking by Axl, I really am just negative due to certain fans who fucking make excuses for everything.
It drives me crazy when record sales don't matter for CD but oh when Libertad flopped those people were all over it, eating it all up how much Slash and Co. sucks.
I just hate the excuse makers, I hated the whole "Get on Board or Fuck off" sentiment.
we are on board, we have supported this band through horrible times and now the CD is out, we get nothing. Just here u go, be grateful we gave u this now shut the fuck up.
it is all about respect.
all the GNR people who censor, talk shit and treat the fanbase like shit makes me negative. If I never posted on GNR forums, I'd be loving CD but I can't stand apologist and people who have their head stuck up their ass and can't admit this CD was horribly mismanaged and the ball on what should've been a spectacular comeback has been dropped.
its a shame really. all the stars were lined up for a huge comeback and now its been fucked totally up and GNR are now a joke.
Look at those pathetic fucking numbers. It is embarrassing. what makes it embarrassing is the CD is good and the band just didn't give a shit. So why should we give a shit?
Re: what are we disappointed with?
Agreed, D-machine.
It appears, that the general public, as well as the "fan-base" are speaking with our wallets with this.
Also, the schism in the fan base, doesn't really exist outside the fan base.
Everyone HATES Axl...
He was hated by the public by the time the Illusions tour ended for his petulent behavior, and he's hated even more now for his abuse of the name, and his $14 Million dollar experiment in a failing economy.
The "nutswingers" aren't just the hard-core Axl supporters, it's any of us who even care anymore.
- killingvector
- Rep: 21
Re: what are we disappointed with?
Agreed, D-machine.
It appears, that the general public, as well as the "fan-base" are speaking with our wallets with this.
Also, the schism in the fan base, doesn't really exist outside the fan base.
Everyone HATES Axl...
He was hated by the public by the time the Illusions tour ended for his petulent behavior, and he's hated even more now for his abuse of the name, and his $14 Million dollar experiment in a failing economy.
The "nutswingers" aren't just the hard-core Axl supporters, it's any of us who even care anymore.
Absolutely. The perception is that Axl was the force who broke up the band and stole the name from the other band members.
If the guy doesn't speak up for himself, then who is to change these minds?
Re: what are we disappointed with?
1. the album. For me it never met my expecations. Though after hearing most of the leaks back in 2006 I knew it wouldn't. I held out hope that the album would have a few surprises and it did but mostly I think it's a stale album. It sounds artificial to me. It sounds forced and seems to lack any real emotion for the most part. It has some nice moments, some awful moments and some extremely forgettable moments.
2. I'm dissapointed with how it's become so painfully obvious that Axl doesn't give two shits about his fans. He can write a letter and say what he wants but actions speak louder than words and I think it sucks that he has such a disregard for the people who kept this thing alive for so many years. As a fanbase we pretty much did everything in our power to promote this thing all for a big fuck you. Especially now that the fans seem to care more than Axl himself. That's bush.
3. The wasted talent of both the old and new band not to mention Axl himself. 15 years down the tubes for what in my mind is an average album. A wickedly talented band forced to play AFD cover songs for nearly a decade.
That's about it.
Re: what are we disappointed with?
One more thing:
All these people who claim Axl doesn't want to "Prostitute" himself etc.
Well shit, Selling your album to the highest exclusive bidder could be considered that right?
The Best Buy deal was all about the money and now he is even fucking them over.
I just feel we wasted a lot of years on these forums just to be smacked in the face and disrespected all over again.
We forgave and kept up cause we thought the payoff would be worth it when in reality I almost wish the damn thing never came out. At least then there would be some justification for this behavior.
Re: what are we disappointed with?
Absolutely. The perception is that Axl was the force who broke up the band and stole the name from the other band members. If the guy doesn't speak up for himself, then who is to change these minds?.
Exactly. The media has been riding the "Axl Rose is crazy" for 14 years. Axl never spoke up or bothered to explain nor did he defend himself. It kept going on and on. When something is being repeated as much as this little idea, it become the truth. It's cool for the below average interested GNR fan to say "Axl sucks" and dismiss the entire thing. The kind that haven't read one forum or knows shit about anything else than what happened in 1993 and that Axl is to blame for everything. If theres anyone in the music world considered an easy target to use, abuse and have fun with it's Axl Rose. Just loosing out to Micheal Jackson. The subjects are there for any idiot journalist to grab. So easy. No wonder why they do it.
I always figured Axl would speak when the time was right, to defend his actions and his plan. Sort of like defending your Master paper in college. It's not like he don't want to. He's done it at concerts since 2001. Problem being, neither journalists or a casual random GNR fan ever downloads or listens to these concerts. Only we do. Axl's average on-stage behaviour have been great fun since 2002. He cracks jokes, he has fun and he comes off a person very different to that of the media. Of course they ignore these things. It doesn't sell stories.
When he's not defending himself now, he probably never will and we see how damaging it is.
Re: what are we disappointed with?
Its just funny how the fanboys have turned Axl into some underground Indy artist who doesn't like mainstream success or interviews
This is the same dude who made multi million dollar videos with a fucking dolphin no less.
he use to give interviews all the time.
I just feel he doesn't want people to know that Guns N Roses are a new band so people who don't know better will buy it. Problem with that is, this isn't Guns N Roses and people who buy CD expecting to hear "Guns N Roses" will be disappointed.
CD is a great album, but people who are use to GNR will be in for a huge surprise hearing this.
I Feel he doesn't want to answer the questions about the old band and he doesn't want to explain what happened etc.
He will let some "Yes Man" ask him pre screened softball questions and that will be it.
He just seems like a coward right now and that is the last thing I thought he'd ever be.
media shy? The same guy who had an MTV crew meet him when he got released from jail? The same guy who would tell his darkest and innermost secrets at concerts and magazines?
Just doesn't add up.
Re: what are we disappointed with?
I think WeTheLiving summed it up nicely. I think everyone felt that the release of Chinese Democracy would signify a return to normalcy for Axl and the band, but instead it has just served as a highlight of the absurdity of this whole project. There's not much to get excited about when the album is not new to any of us and there is no foreseeable future for this band. Chinese Democracy will turn out to be the death knell for Guns N Roses. There is no band and I can't imagine Axl will release any more material from this ridiculous project. I also can't imagine him going back to Slash and Duff with his tail between his legs. The sad fact is he would have been better off leaving it unreleased.
Re: what are we disappointed with?
Exactly. The media has been riding the "Axl Rose is crazy" for 14 years. Axl never spoke up or bothered to explain nor did he defend himself. It kept going on and on. When something is being repeated as much as this little idea, it become the truth. It's cool for the below average interested GNR fan to say "Axl sucks" and dismiss the entire thing. The kind that haven't read one forum or knows shit about anything else than what happened in 1993 and that Axl is to blame for everything. If theres anyone in the music world considered an easy target to use, abuse and have fun with it's Axl Rose. Just loosing out to Micheal Jackson. The subjects are there for any idiot journalist to grab. So easy. No wonder why they do it.
I always figured Axl would speak when the time was right, to defend his actions and his plan. Sort of like defending your Master paper in college. It's not like he don't want to. He's done it at concerts since 2001. Problem being, neither journalists or a casual random GNR fan ever downloads or listens to these concerts. Only we do. Axl's average on-stage behaviour have been great fun since 2002. He cracks jokes, he has fun and he comes off a person very different to that of the media. Of course they ignore these things. It doesn't sell stories.
When he's not defending himself now, he probably never will and we see how damaging it is.
When someone is hammered and bashed and blamed for so long you'd think he'd want to stand up for himself. Explain his side. Problem is when people don't stand up for themselves it's usually cause there's a whole lot of truth to what's being said. Shit if someone, anyone started slandering me publicly blaming me for stuff that wasn't true I'd fire back if I knew it was bullshit. Axl never fired back cause I'm willing to bet he knows he fucked it up.
It's like the whole Markl McGuire thing in baseball. Dude doesn't wanna talk about the past cause he knows he fucked up and has nothing to say. His legacy ruined casue he didn't stand up and yel BLASPHEMY!!!!! when accused of using roids. I look at Axl the same way. If what Slash and Duff have said in the past isn't true then Axl should've stood up for himself long ago.
