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- Communist China
- Rep: 130
Re: what are we disappointed with?
Communist China wrote:Sure the album's awesome. But instead of re-launching GNR, it signals its final and complete cretaive death.
Make up your mind, is it a great album or does it signal death? You can't have it both ways. Creativity and album sales are NOT the same thing. Those of you wanting/expecting Axl to "appeal" to the masses and be this "Bono" or " Bon Jovi" type of icon are in for a big dissapointment
The album can be great and be their end. This is the last gasp. It is good but it is not a new beginning, but an end.
I'd explain it better but it seems clear to me. This is it. There's nothing more to come from this band. And that's sad. Because the 01 line-up had a lot more to offer than one album.
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: what are we disappointed with?
Communist China wrote:Sure the album's awesome. But instead of re-launching GNR, it signals its final and complete cretaive death.
Make up your mind, is it a great album or does it signal death? You can't have it both ways. Creativity and album sales are NOT the same thing. Those of you wanting/expecting Axl to "appeal" to the masses and be this "Bono" or " Bon Jovi" type of icon are in for a big dissapointment
After spending 13+ millions on the album, Axl suddenly becomes the underground hero. Wow. That's something new to me. Axl Rose is one of the biggest brands of rock. Ever. Guns N' Roses is one of the biggest brands, too. It's expected to sell a lot, even if it's only Axl's farting. It does not. We all have our theories for it, but one thing is sure: displaying the flop by acting like it'd be some huge art that people cannot understand is an Axl-type normalcy. No offense, mate. But Axl Rose is a bigger icon than Bon Jovi and he is (was?) in the Bono league without the saviour of the poor crap.
Re: what are we disappointed with?
displaying the flop by acting like it'd be some huge art that people cannot understand is an Axl-type normalcy.
what is Axl-type normalcy? THAT is indeed a new one. I personally never have said CD was a work of art people don't get, and used it as an excuse. I am not making any excuses for Axl. But, at the same time I'm not going to sit here and pretend he's something he's not. Most people on here expected when CD dropped that his mental illness would be cured, and that he would parade around the scene kissing babies and co-hosting the morning show. I really don't understand how any of you could be shocked by his behavior. Yes, I will admit that record sales and the general excitement surrounding Guns N' Roses was/is a bit below my expectations, but Axl made his bed and he must now lie in it. However, none of that takes away from how much I love GNR and how truly happy I am that CD has been released. Just because it wasn't the biggest commercial success ever, doesn't take away from the integrity of the project in my eyes. Axl is 45+ plus years old and times have changed, the world is different from the time he was "on top". Even the most successful rock bands of TODAY aren't nearly as successful as GNR,Pearl Jam, Nirvana, RHCP, R.E.M. etc, etc where back when rock n' roll was still king. Times have changed my friends, CD is a great album, but even it has it's limitations - it can't turn back time. Also, when bringing AC/DC into this picture one must understand that they have an entire generation of fans that came before GNR ever existed, and they haven't pissed nearly as many people off. There are boat loads of people who hate GNR and/or just simply want to see them (Axl mainly) fail... the term "fuck Axl" has been around since 1990... So if you're gonna say it, then say it, "fuck Axl", but stop acting like this record sold 87,000 copies and is DOA for GNR, because I promise you all that is not the case here
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: what are we disappointed with?
I think the reason a lot of people are negative is that overall what a lot of people wanted was for GNR to resume some level of traditional band behaviour.
This may have been a foolish wish on the part of fans, but that's what it comes down to.
Despite our the online critisism, the bottom line is that anyone who still follows this band or cares at all enough to pay any attention to GNR has tollerated a bunch of behaviours that are abnormal in the music industry. For example:
Since inception the band was surrounded by riots, cancelled showes, and chaos in the media. The music made up for it. A wait for UYI. No problem. We lost steven and Izzy. We lived with it. The band only released covers as a follow up to UYI. That's ok. Move on. 4/5 of the original band is gone. Ouch. Ok.
We're told a new line up with go on and continue. we're told its still going to be GNR. We wait 6 years or so. No news. Ok...still hopefull. The music used to justify it. New line up is announced and contains some awesome talents. Good maybe something will happen now? A tour begins. Somethign looks normal. No...shows are cancelled. New line up features people who have a radically different image to the old...Robin looks like an Alien...Axl sings in a completely different style to the way he used to...that's ok...music will be good...
Then...Tour ends suddenly... Not good...but we know they're capiable of great music. We wait. We keep faith. The 'new' lineup begins to slowly erode like the old line up did. It's ok...the band has survived this before...soon the time will come..the music can justify. The band starts telling us not to wait. No news for years. Yet no anouncement that it's over either. Various disapointments ensue from the limited commuication....Tommy hears the 'final mixes' in 2004 and nothing happens. There's a ton of things like that. An aura of secrecy and mystry is developed....this further enhances an expectation from fans.
It gets to 2006. We hear some songs - they show promice. Suddenly things start looking normal. We get a new offical line up. A tour happens. Axl gives an interview. The year ends...he gives us a potential date. Hope!
Then...silence....the date passes....ok it was never a guarenteed date...but a 2 line note saying why there is a delay would have ment a ton...but no...we're told not to wait and hated on for giving a shit...as if it's not us who will buy the next record.
No offical word comes from the band - the websites are years out of date - all the while the band works behing the scenes to stifle the flow of information and discussion amongst fans. They turn the major fan website into a cult enviroment where censorship thrives and yet news is kept to an absolute minimum. Despite all this, their actions still suggest that GNR isn't over...one day a band of some discription will adopt the name...tour, release music, be a band. They are implying this or why shut down discussion, why ban leaks. Think about it. if there is nothing to come? Why act that way?
So we wait. Time passes. We know axl is sensitive. We remember he sings amazinly. We know the talent is there. We believe. The implication is backed up in the open letter which says the release will be handeled properly and not in a "just appear in your store on a tuesday way". We wait more. Major band members appear to have resigned...still no word from the band...we accept it for the way things are...we're still hopeful that what was once can be again...a GNR with awesome music and that's active.
Finally it gets to 2008. Things start falling into place. The album is announced. Things start to look like they've finally happend for us - after 17 years. The album is released. This is where fan experiences diverge - some of us loved the music, some didn't - and that's all opinion and I won't derail the thread further by discussing that here. But, love it or hate it, when we got the album the rest of the traditional package we waited for didn't materalise, there was no interviews, no bonus type stuff, next to no promotion, no tours, silence from 90% of the band, no idea as to who remains in the band and who doesn't, not much chance for the outside world to get to know and love these songs like some of us do....in short....nothing to suggest there was a real exisiting entity that can be defined and called GNR.
That's why fans get pissed. We want to be fans of GNR, yet in any given year, the silence makes it almost impossible to even say who is in GNR to someone who asks about our fandom let alone do traditional fan stuff. And now people wonder why there is angst?
The worst thing is...it's self fullfilling as the more upset we get, the more distanced the band will become and the less likelyhood there is of any of our dreams ever comming to fruition.
So why are people mad....our own fault or managments or axls or whoevers...but for 17 years we've been told (directly or implication or whaever) a dream - that GNR can survive the changes from the UYI era and move on....and now at the greatest moment where it's actually coming to the moment...it seems as if nothing has changed, the silence will continue, the band is unknown, and now we don't even have the prospect of new music to dream about and look forward to. (Unless we're told otherwise). That's why
For my part...I loved the record. I think it's different but pretty much as good as the old GNR in different ways. musically I don't feel let down at all. But...I still dream of a time when being a fan is easier...and I know it will never happen as Axl is who he is....and his talent justfies all of the shit to me. I'll do another 17 yeats for another good album. But I understand that for a lot of people...they're near the end of their willpower and they may not share my faith or adoration of the output we do get. And those people are angry. And I can understand what they mean even if the music makes me happy.
Re: what are we disappointed with?
I'm not really disappointed in the music although it could have been better,I'm more disappointed in the lack of promotion from Axl,if he loved this music so much,the music he spent millions making and a lot of time he put into it you'd think he'd at least do and interview or something.
Re: what are we disappointed with?
I'm disappointed that SO many "fans" are so disappointed. However, I'm not surprised by that in the least. There's always gonna be negativity. No matter what Axl does or doesn't do. There was negativity ever since the band re-emerged back in 2006. Whether it was about Ron being inferior to Bucket, Robin messing up Slash's work, the setlist not changing enough, not playing enough new songs, not getting updates, not getting the album in March 2006. We finally get the album and people thought magically everything would change. It's an album, and it's been TWO WEEKS! I know many expect the worst, and always have. Maybe on November 23rd a majority of people were actually positive, but once that day ended the bitching commenced. And it will continue regardless of what happens from here on out. I'm ready for it, I'm used to it by now.
I'm psyched we finally got the album we've been waiting so long for and am excited about what lies ahead in the future. And most of all I'm excited to continue to read the negative spins that people will put on things from here on out.
Re: what are we disappointed with?
Great post Monkeychow, that pretty much sums up how I feel as well.
I really like the album and it's the first album in quite a few years where I like almost all of the songs of it. Yeah sure sales figures are inconsequential, however, I am disappointed as I would like to have seen what this album could have done with a bit of proper commercial push. Why? Because I want this band to be big again and successful, I am sick of talking to people about GN'R who then laugh at me and deride the band for the punchline Axl/CD & GNR have become. I want this band to be big again so - like Monkeychow said - there may be the chance of some normalcy - eg new music, bonus stuff, videos, interviews, DVD's, tours, information etc - something - ANYTHING! I thought the release of CD may change this to a certain degree - WRONG!
I am sure the Axl camp will blame the lack of promo on UMG or Azoff or whoever. But the fact remains while Axl had the whip hand he used it and abused it. When the album was finally taken out of his hands he should have been ready to have to bend over and cop it in return, because they were always going to deal it back in spades and he should have been ready to play ball no matter how much he disliked it. But instead the public perception looks like he spat the dummy and is sitting in Malibu sulking. The truth may be different but hey, nobody bothers to tell the handful of remaining people that give a shit about this band. So we wonder what we do now as fans, is there anything left to support? Is this the end of the line? Do we just say thanks for the ride it was kinda sucky and fun too at times, we'll now just move on and look for a new band to support??? Do I now just look towards VR and hope Slash et al may find a singer/songwriter that can make music again that will connect with me?
Regarding the negative reviews, I think there were always going to be critics that were just waiting to be able to stick the boot in to Axl & CD regardless of how good the music was - purely because of the "fuck you all" way he has dealt with things in the past. But Jesus Christ Axl I didn't expect you to give them even more ammo by remaining mute, doing no promo, giving no information and for all we know releasing a CD by a band that no longer has any members left other than the vocalist.
To sum it up I am disappointed, not in the music but with the situation, I also feel a bit lost. Where to from here? Do I just continue to play CD and the back catalogue and be grateful for that and move on from this band? I don't know, but I know I've been left with a hollow feeling.
- killingvector
- Rep: 21
Re: what are we disappointed with?
The only version of this band I cared about included Bucket. He's gone, but on the album. I got to see them live together and on CD.
What disappoints me is Axl has taken his fans for granted again. Sales, singles or awards will not validate my opinion that CD is a great record. Nothing can. It's good enough for me, but the same can't be said ab out Axl's behavior.
Sales don't validate the album, but the band's future is a reward thus given. I hate to have to worry about units pushed or spins, but in reality we may not hear another record from this band if this album does poorly. Or we may not hear a record of this quality from GnR ever again. There is a lot at stake here and unfortunately it depends on these kids buying the record.
