You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
- killingvector
- Rep: 21
Re: Musician's comment on Guns N Roses/Chinese Democracy
Industry legend Bob Ludwig on mastering of CD
http://mastering-media.blogspot.com/
The Loudness War Is Over - If We Want It
The Loudness Wars are over. The tide has turned. The massive backlash against the crushed, distorted sound of Metallica's Death Magnetic has had exactly the impact we all wanted.
Want proof ? Guns 'n' Roses' new CD, "Chinese Democracy", has been mastered by industry legend Bob Ludwig, who offered the label three different masters, and they chose the most dynamic version.
In an article on his website, Bob says
I was floored when I heard they decided to go with my full dynamics version and the loudness-for-loudness-sake versions be damned.
and goes on to explain:
I think the fan and press backlash against the recent heavily compressed recordings finally set the context for someone to take a stand and return to putting music and dynamics above sheer level...
...I’m hoping that Chinese Democracy will mark the beginning of people returning to sane levels and musicality triumphing over distortion and grunge. I have already seen a new awareness and appreciation for quality from some other producers, I pray it is the end of the level wars.
Bob isn't the only one to see a change, though. Mastering engineers have been commenting on the Gearslutz Mastering forum and elsewhere that since the publicity surrounding the release of "Death Magnetic" more and more people are asking
"Please don't do a 'Metallica' on my record"
I've seen it myself too - recently I called a long-time customer to suggest that his latest CD would sound better with a few dBs more headroom - I said "I realise you'll probably disagree with this, but in my opinion it's too loud" - and he replied "I know" !
That had never happened before.
But it will happen more and more, from now on. Despite Metallica's unconvincing insistence that they are happy with the way Rick Rubin produced "Death Magnetic", over 80% of fans responding to a poll on their forums think that it should be remixed. Over 18,000 people have signed the online petition. Only a handful of the 280,000 who have viewed the YouTube comparison video say they prefer the CD version.
And what about "Chinese Democracy" ? One of the most expensive and anticipated rock albums in recent years ? Against all expectations, it has been produced and mastered with dynamics, punch and power. The average A-weighted RMS loudness is around -16 dBFS, and as a result it "jumps out of the speakers" at you in a way that "Death Magnetic" never will. Check out a preview of the first track on Last.fm - listen to the way the guitars pile in at 1'26" and then again at 2'10" and then again at 3'36" - you just can't achieve that kind of buzz and build with an RMS of -4 dB.
Here are some predictions for "Chinese Democracy":
* It will sell by the bucket-load (head?!) even though it hasn't been smashed to hell
* No-one will complain that it's too quiet
* It will sound fantastic (and loud) on the radio, because it's dynamic and punchy
* No-one will start a petition to have a crushed and distorted re-release made
Hats off to Bob and the team behind Guns 'n' Roses, and here's to a future of better-sounding music.
Re: Musician's comment on Guns N Roses/Chinese Democracy
tylerdurden wrote:it's very good.. it didn't sell... so motley lost their balls and crawled back to vince...
that's why i say fuck a reunion... axl has more integrity.. at least i would hope soI dont' see how Axl going back with Slash and Duff would mean he has a lack of integrity in any way shape or form. Why is it that Axl has more integrity than that? Is that to say Slash and Duff don't have any integrity so a reuniuon for them would be fine? I just don't get that line of thinking. How is a reunion reflect negatively on anyone's integrity?
they can spin it any way they want.. but the only reason bands like guns n' roses, the eagles, the police and kiss "reunite" is money.. plain and simple. axl's making the music he wants to make, so why on earth would he even entertain the idea of a reunion?
and by no means am i suggesting that slash and duff would be more likely to want a reunion.. they ALL have plenty of goddamn money.
if chinese democracy doesn't do well... the pressure from all sides will be tremendous...."do it..do it.. do it!"
my opinion is that axl would be less inclined to cave into the pressure of reunion chants. axl fits more into the kind of music that slash and duff are playing these days than the other way around...it would be alot less of an artistic compromise for them...
Re: Musician's comment on Guns N Roses/Chinese Democracy
they can spin it any way they want.. but the only reason bands like guns n' roses, the eagles, the police and kiss "reunite" is money.. plain and simple. axl's making the music he wants to make, so why on earth would he even entertain the idea of a reunion?
and by no means am i suggesting that slash and duff would be more likely to want a reunion.. they ALL have plenty of goddamn money.
if chinese democracy doesn't do well... the pressure from all sides will be tremendous...."do it..do it.. do it!"my opinion is that axl would be less inclined to cave into the pressure of reunion chants. axl fits more into the kind of music that slash and duff are playing these days than the other way around...it would be alot less of an artistic compromise for them...
yeah o.k. Fair enough. I see what you're saying. 
Re: Musician's comment on Guns N Roses/Chinese Democracy
Unless Axl's material that has been recorded, is the ownership of UMG as a GN'R production, I don't see why Axl couldn't reunite, and still release the CD sessions as solo albums, even as the reunion went on. Then when GN'R take a break from touring, like every other musician in the world, Axl could do some club shows to promote his albums, no different than Slash, Duff & Izzy would be doing elsewhere.
Sounds like a plan to me.
Then when they get comfortable enough, maybe they could collaborate on future albums as Guns N' Roses.
There's really no pressure involved artistically in a reunion. They all have solo outlets (with fans), and are marketable. Anything Axl wants to try, that isn't clicking with the rest of the band, he could always take full-throttle on his solo work. All of them have solo outlets, so nobody is going to sit back and judge either other, saying "you're not dedicated enough to GN'R". It's a new day. Axl's obviously not going to be an asshole (in 2008) to anyone in the band, who does solo projects. He's not that much of a nazi. Unlike James Hetfield, that for some reason decided to throw a perfectly fine bass player out of his band, just because he decided to do something in the down time.
Re: Musician's comment on Guns N Roses/Chinese Democracy
Unless Axl's material that has been recorded, is the ownership of UMG as a GN'R production, I don't see why Axl couldn't reunite, and still release the CD sessions as solo albums, even as the reunion went on. Then when GN'R take a break from touring, like every other musician in the world, Axl could do some club shows to promote his albums, no different than Slash, Duff & Izzy would be doing elsewhere.
Sounds like a plan to me.
Then when they get comfortable enough, maybe they could collaborate on future albums as Guns N' Roses.
There's really no pressure involved artistically in a reunion. They all have solo outlets (with fans), and are marketable. Anything Axl wants to try, that isn't clicking with the rest of the band, he could always take full-throttle on his solo work. All of them have solo outlets, so nobody is going to sit back and judge either other, saying "you're not dedicated enough to GN'R". It's a new day. Axl's obviously not going to be an asshole (in 2008) to anyone in the band, who does solo projects. He's not that much of a nazi. Unlike James Hetfield, that for some reason decided to throw a perfectly fine bass player out of his band, just because he decided to do something in the down time.
Amen to that! At least I'm not the only one that isn't hiding my head in the sand.
- mikepatton
- Rep: 1
Re: Musician's comment on Guns N Roses/Chinese Democracy
Unless Axl's material that has been recorded, is the ownership of UMG as a GN'R production, I don't see why Axl couldn't reunite, and still release the CD sessions as solo albums, even as the reunion went on. Then when GN'R take a break from touring, like every other musician in the world, Axl could do some club shows to promote his albums, no different than Slash, Duff & Izzy would be doing elsewhere.
Sounds like a plan to me.
Then when they get comfortable enough, maybe they could collaborate on future albums as Guns N' Roses.
There's really no pressure involved artistically in a reunion. They all have solo outlets (with fans), and are marketable. Anything Axl wants to try, that isn't clicking with the rest of the band, he could always take full-throttle on his solo work. All of them have solo outlets, so nobody is going to sit back and judge either other, saying "you're not dedicated enough to GN'R". It's a new day. Axl's obviously not going to be an asshole (in 2008) to anyone in the band, who does solo projects. He's not that much of a nazi. Unlike James Hetfield, that for some reason decided to throw a perfectly fine bass player out of his band, just because he decided to do something in the down time.
I think the problem is that Axl doesn't see GNR music as something different from his own music.
He thinks GNR is his outlet, that's why everything was good during the early days, when they were all on the same page musically speaking. Then Axl started to get into other types of music and felt GNR should do that. If he could separate the things that don't click with the rest of the band and release them as solo work, the old band would probably still be together.
Truth is he can't, and I think that until he can, a reunion is not likely to happen (at least one where new material is released, just touring is something different
Re: Musician's comment on Guns N Roses/Chinese Democracy
Good points Mike. Unfortunately it's tough to make Axl understand that, he can do his thing solo, without the GN'R name. It isn't all him. Other men built that name. Just like I would give Bucket & Chris Pitman heavy credit for the direction of CD, along with Axl.
Plenty of artists broke off from other bands and did solo stuff, that sound exactly what the band sounds like. Paul Stanley went off and did a couple solo albums, full of ballads... that sound like KISS ballads. Gene Simmons solo albums sound like KISS rockers.
Same with The Eagles. The entire solo catalog of Glenn, Don & Joe sound like Eagles songs, with them on lead. Thus the reason it was so easy to incorporate those songs into their setlists as Eagles songs, when they reunited. Freddie Mercury & Brian May's solo work, sound exactly like Queen songs.
Axl can do his own thing, and make it on his own without that GN'R name. He just has to believe in himself. He has fans. Like me, that would buy those albums, just like I bought Izzy's albums. I went out and got Buckethead's albums & Tommy's, because of GN'R. I like them.
People also would be FAR more forgiving of Axl, if CD would've just been a solo release without that GN'R name. FAR more forgiving. I think it's a GN'R album, and lives up to the GN'R name... but then again - i'm biased.
Re: Musician's comment on Guns N Roses/Chinese Democracy
Chinese Democracy wasn't going to change the music world... it's an album about Axl Rose's life with the media/fans/old bandmates/girlfriend. It's really built for Axlphiles to begin with, and others can enjoy it. Axl himself basically said "you'll like a track or two on there" or something in a review years ago.
The difference is people need to have things bashed into their brains and they're not doing it. It would have been better received back then, but that's neither here nor there in terms of the release right now. I don't think anyone really sits around pissed off that Axl got the GNR name, not normal people anyways. Like the "Chinese Democracy took 15 years" comment, there'll always be the "Axl's the only one left" thing, but if it's good and promoted, they will come.
