You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Re: Georgia and Russia Nearing All-Out War
I think it's bad when our president's intelligence seems to drop over time. Those are some unterlly stupid comments from that guy.
While this conflict is a little worrisome, Russia has every right to protect their interests. Georgia made the first move, Russia stepped because it was neccessary. Their war actually... has some purpose. Imagine that. Who knew you could do that in the 21st century? Apparently not Bush.
Wars with false pretenses that are unsupported by the general public are acceptable, but wars that are declared under sound fact and public support are unacceptable.
2009 will not come quick enough.
Re: Georgia and Russia Nearing All-Out War
and how is 2009 going to be different with McCain as president?:thumbup:
It isn't going to be different. It might be worse. McCain is notoriously anti-Russia and Obama doesn't know his asshole from his elbow.
We're fucked either way regarding any conflict in the region.
The US is currently flying Georgian troops from Iraq back to Georgia. Anyone who thinks that wont be considered a hostile act by Russia is deluding themselves. We're basically sending troops into Georgia to kill Russian troops, and US troops had been in Georgia training their forces last month.
This is a proxy war.
We may see US casualties in this conflict in the coming days/weeks.
Re: Georgia and Russia Nearing All-Out War
TBILISI, Georgia (CNN) -- The Russian military advanced into Georgia on two fronts Monday, heading toward cities outside the breakaway provinces that have been the centers of fighting.
From the flashpoint South Ossetia, the Russian military moved south toward the central Georgia city of Gori, Georgia said. Russia said its troops were on the outskirts of the city.
A CNN crew in Gori saw Georgian forces piling into trucks and leaving the city at high speed.
CNN saw thousands of troops driving out of the city, as well as thousands of civilians traveling by convoy from Gori toward Tbilisi.
Gori lies along Georgia's main east-west highway, and is an important site for Georgia's communication systems.
Russian troops were also in Senaki, in western Georgia, having advanced from the breakaway area of Abkhazia, Russian and Georgian officials said.
Russia's Interfax news agency cited an official with the Russian Defense Ministry saying troops were in Senaki to "prevent attacks by Georgian military units against South Ossetia." Senaki is home to a Georgian military base.
Georgia's interior ministry said Russia had also seized control of Zugdidi -- a city on the route between Abkhazia and Senaki.
Georgia launched a crackdown Thursday against separatist fighters in South Ossetia. Russia, which supports the separatists and has peacekeepers in the region, sent its military into South Ossetia on Friday.
Russia and Georgia have accused each other of killing numerous civilians during the conflict.
The Georgian government said it was recalling the army to Tbilisi "to defend the capital." U.S. officials reported seeing Georgian tanks and personnel pouring into the capital.
Russia has not threatened to enter Tbilisi and says its operations are peacekeeping. However, Georgia fears an invasion of its capital.
In Washington on Monday, President Bush said Russia's attacks against Georgia have "substantially damaged Russia's standing in the world."
Bush also warned Russia against trying to depose Georgia's government, saying evidence suggests Russia may be preparing to do so.
He called on Russia to accept a cease-fire proposal that Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili had signed.
Saakashvili said Monday the internationally brokered proposal would be taken to Moscow by French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner and Finnish Foreign Minister Alexander Stubb on Monday evening.
A Georgian National Security Council official said the proposal called for an unconditional cease-fire, a non-use of force agreement, a withdrawal of Russian troops from Georgian territory, including the South Ossetia region, and provisions for international peacekeeping and mediation.
Later Monday, Russia's ambassador to the United Nations said Russia would not sign off on a draft U.N. resolution calling for a cease-fire discussed by the U.N. Security Council.
Ambassador Vitaly Churkin said the proposed resolution, drafted by French officials, was lacking in a "serious number" of areas.
"We will look at the draft and try to bring it to a standard where it can play a role in this," Churkin said.
One of the issues Churkin mentioned was that the draft resolution, which has not been made public, did not mention Georgia's previous "aggression" in South Ossetia.
During a conference call with reporters Monday, Saakashvili said Georgia was "in the process of invasion, occupation, and annihilation of an independent, democratic country."
Saakashvili abruptly ended the call, saying: "We have to go to the shelter because there are Russian planes flying over the presidential palace here, sorry."
Video showed a chaotic scene outside the palace, with the president being rushed away under heavy security.
Saakashvili later accused Russia of ethnic cleansing -- a charge the Russians have repeatedly leveled at Georgia, and which both sides deny.
He said Georgian troops had downed "18 or 19" Russian warplanes and killed hundreds of Russian troops.
Saakashvili said Russia had 500 tanks and 25,000 troops inside Georgia. A Russian defense ministry said only four planes had been lost.
Russia said it has no interest in interfering with Georgia's affairs but wants to protect its peacekeepers and the residents of South Ossetia.
Russian Defense Ministry Colonel-General Anatoly Nogovitsyn said Georgian troops in South Ossetia were being driven out.
"At the moment, our troops are pushing out, capturing and disarming groups of Georgian law enforcement agencies which have been surrounded in the capital of South Ossetia," Nogovitsyn said.
The skies over the breakaway regions and Georgia belonged to the Russians, he said, as the Georgian air force was not flying.
They had "inflicted damage on operational systems, troops and military facilities of Georgia," but Nogovitsyn denied Russian bombers had attacked a civilian radar installation at the Tbilisi International Airport.
A Georgian Foreign Ministry statement said "several dozen Russian bombers" were over Georgia Monday afternoon "intensively bombing Tbilisi, Poti, villages in Adjara, and elsewhere."
"Overnight, as many as 50 Russian bombers were reported operating simultaneously over Georgia, targeting civilian populations in cities and villages, as well as radio and telecommunications sites," the statement said.
Colonel-General Nogovitsyn repeated an earlier charge that Georgian troops were engaged in genocide against civilians in South Ossetia, which he said he could "prove to the media."
"During their mop-up operations in South Ossetia, Georgian commandos have thrown hand grenades into the basements where civilians were hiding," he said. "That's what we call genocide."
South Ossetia's capital, Tskhinvali, lay in smoldering ruins after four days of fighting. Each side accused the other of killing large numbers of civilians. Russia said at least 2,000 people had been killed in Tskhinvali.
Georgia began withdrawing its forces from Tskhinvali early Sunday.
Georgia, a pro-Western ally of the U.S., is intent on asserting its authority over South Ossetia and Abkhazia, both of which have strong Russian-backed separatist movements.
The situation in South Ossetia escalated rapidly from Thursday night, when Georgia said it launched an operation into the region after artillery fire from separatists killed 10 people. It accused Russia of backing the separatists.
South Ossetia, which has a population of about 70,000, is inside Georgia but has an autonomous government. Many South Ossetians support unification with North Ossetia, which would make them part of Russia.
Russia supports the South Ossetian government, has given passports to many in South Ossetia, and calls them Russian citizens.
Re: Georgia and Russia Nearing All-Out War
A CNN crew in Gori saw Georgian forces piling into trucks and leaving the city at high speed.
Why are you leaving?:laugh: You started the fucking thing. Not able to handle anything tougher than sleeping innocent civilians??
In Washington on Monday, President Bush said Russia's attacks against Georgia have "substantially damaged Russia's standing in the world."
You mean like the Iraq and Afghanistan wars damaged ours? Not even close.
A Georgian National Security Council official said the proposal called for an unconditional cease-fire, a non-use of force agreement, a withdrawal of Russian troops from Georgian territory, including the South Ossetia region, and provisions for international peacekeeping and mediation.
Russia will not accept that. They will annex Georgia before caving in to such demands.
There's no reason to bring this to the UN because Russia has veto power.
The world is just mad that Russia has now unveiled themselves on the world stage as a serious military power. The US has wanted us all to think the US was the big enchilada and China was our nemesis. China was always irrelevant as a military power and I said this for years. Russia is what really keeps us in check, and now the world is finally getting that reality check.
Re: Georgia and Russia Nearing All-Out War
MOSCOW - Russian President Dmitri Medvedev ordered a halt to military action in Georgia Tuesday, saying it had punished Georgia and brought security for civilians and Russian peacekeepers in the breakaway South Ossetia region.
"The security of our peacekeepers and civilians has been restored," Medvedev said in a nationally televised statement. "The aggressor has been punished and suffered very significant losses. Its military has been disorganized."
At the same time, Medvedev ordered the military to quell any signs of Georgian resistance.
"If there are any emerging hotbeds of resistance or any aggressive actions, you should take steps to destroy them," he told his defense minister at a Kremlin meeting.
Russia's foreign minister, meanwhile, said that Georgia's president must leave office and Georgian troops should stay out of the pro-Russian South Ossetia region for good.
Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said that Moscow won't talk to President Mikhail Saakashvili and Saakashvili "better go."
Hours before Medvedev's announcement, Russian forces bombed the town of Gori and launched an offensive in the only part of Abkhazia still under Georgian control, tightening the assault on the beleaguered nation as French President Nicolas Sarkozy flew to Moscow carrying Western demands that Russia pull back.
The U.N. and NATO called meetings to deal with a conflict that blew up in South Ossetia last week and quickly developed into an East-West crisis that raised fears in the former Soviet bloc nations of Eastern Europe. Five European presidents were headed to Russia and Georgia to mediate.
Georgia launched an offensive late Thursday to regain control over South Ossetia, which has run its own affairs since 1992 and developed close ties with Russia. Russia sent in troops that fought Georgian forces and launched air raids over Georgian territory.
Re: Georgia and Russia Nearing All-Out War
MOSCOW '” Russia ordered a halt to military action in Georgia on Tuesday, after five days of air and land attacks sent Georgia's army into headlong retreat and left towns and military bases destroyed. More than 2,000 people were reported killed.
Georgian officials insisted that Russia has continued the bombings despite the pledge. And hours before the Russian order, Georgian officials said Russian jets targeted government offices and an outdoor market in the crossroads city of Gori, killing six. Russia, which denied the bombing, launched an offensive in the only part of Abkhazia still under Georgian control.
Gori was all but deserted late Monday '” most remaining residents and Georgian soldiers fled ahead of a feared Russian onslaught. The post office and university were still burning.
In Tskhinvali, South Ossetia's provincial capital, the body of a Georgian soldier lay in the street along with debris. A poster hanging nearby showed Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and the slogan "Say yes to peace and stability" as South Ossetian separatist fighters launched rockets at a Georgian plane soaring overhead.
The death toll was expected to rise, for large areas of Georgia were too dangerous for journalists to enter. Tens of thousands of terrified residents have fled the fighting '” South Ossetians north to Russia, and Georgians west toward the capital of Tbilisi and the country's Black Sea coast.
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said on national television that Georgia had been punished enough for its attack on South Ossetia. Georgia launched an offensive late Thursday to regain control over the separatist Georgian province, which has close ties to Russia.
"The aggressor has been punished and suffered very significant losses. Its military has been disorganized," Medvedev said.
"If there are any emerging hotbeds of resistance or any aggressive actions, you should take steps to destroy them," he ordered his defense minister at a televised Kremlin meeting.
The British oil company BP shut down one of three Georgian pipelines as a precaution. Georgia sits on a strategic oil pipeline carrying Caspian crude to Western markets bypassing Russia, has long been a source of contention between the West and a resurgent Russia, which is seeking to strengthen its role as the dominant energy supplier to the continent.
A Russian general dismissed Georgian reports that warplanes again bombed a pipeline and accused Georgia of spreading false reports in order to rally anti-Russian sentiments in the West.
Russia's foreign minister called for Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili to resign and Medvedev said Georgia must pull its troops from South Ossetia and Abkhazia '” the two Russian-backed breakaway provinces at the heart of the dispute.
More than 2,000 people have been reported killed in the fighting, but the death toll was expected to rise, for large areas of Georgia were too dangerous for journalists to enter. Tens of thousands of terrified residents have fled the fighting '” South Ossetians north to Russia, and Georgians west toward the capital of Tbilisi and the country's Black Sea coast.
Re: Georgia and Russia Nearing All-Out War
Here the news: http://samsonblinded.org/news/governmen … ussia-2647 Israelis supply weapons to Georgia!
Re: Georgia and Russia Nearing All-Out War
TBILISI, Georgia (CNN) -- Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili told CNN Wednesday that Russian forces "are encroaching upon the capital" in violation of a cease-fire agreement.
Saakashvili said the Russians never intended to hold up their end of the truce agreed to Tuesday.
"This is the kind of cease-fire that, I don't know, they had with Afghanistan I guess in 1979," Saakashvili said. "There is no cease-fire, they [Russian forces] are moving around."
The Russian General Staff said its troops were not heading for the Georgian capital, Tbilisi.
Earlier, CNN Correspondent Matthew Chance reported a convoy of Russian armored personnel carriers was moving deeper into Georgia.
Chance, on the road with the Russian column, said it was moving slowly south from Gori toward Tbilisi.
However the convoy turned down a side road, taking it away from the city.
Chance said CNN had been told by Georgian officials that the convoy was mostly likely heading for an abandoned Georgian military base at Uplistsikhe, six miles (10 km) east of Gori.
Georgia and Russia accused each other of violating a cease-fire only 24 hours after it was agreed.
The six-point deal was meant to end the fighting over the breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, but both sides traded accusations Wednesday.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov used a Moscow press conference to urge Georgia to formally sign the cease-fire deal.
Saakashvili, flanked by the leaders of Lithuania, Poland, Estonia and Latvia in a separate media briefing, said Russian tanks were attacking and "rampaging" through the Georgian town of Gori despite the cease-fire.
However journalists in Gori, the birthplace of former Soviet leader Joseph Stalin, said they had seen no Russian tanks. Residents there told the journalists they had earlier seen "some" Russian tanks, but not in large numbers.
A Russian military official also disputed Georgia's claims. He said Russian forces were at an abandoned Georgian artillery base near Gori, but not inside the town itself.
"I tell you with full responsibility that there are no Russian tanks in Gori today and there is no reason to be," because Gori authorities have fled the city, said General Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy chief of the Russian General Staff.
Nogovitsyn said the conflict had killed 74 Russian troops, wounded 171 and left 19 missing in action.
Saakashvili also accused Russia of carpet bombing Tskhinvali, South Ossetia's capital, and setting up internment camps for residents there and in Abkhazia.
He also told CNN Western leaders had "failed to analyze Russia's intentions" before it invaded Georgia and "are partly to blame" for the current situation.
"The response has not been adequate," Saakashvili said. "Not only those people who are committing all those atrocities are responsible, but those who don't react to that, I think they also share responsibility."
French President Nicolas Sarkozy said Tuesday that Saakashvili and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev had agreed to a deal, which called for an immediate cease-fire and withdrawal to the positions held before the fighting escalated.
Sarkozy is the current president of the European Union, which mediated the cease-fire.
Lavrov said it was important for Georgian armed forces to return to their barracks as part of the agreement.
"The Georgian side must immediately fulfill this key issue, to remove all dangers concerning relapses," Lavrov said.
He reiterated that Russian peacekeepers would remain in South Ossetia, where they were before the fighting erupted last week.
He also called for international observers to help ensure peace and "prevent any aggressive ambitions on the part of the Georgian leadership."
Wednesday was a day of mourning in Russia for what Medvedev called the "genocide" of the South Ossetian people by Georgian forces. Flags across Moscow flew at half-staff.
Lithuanian President Valdas Adamkus said an international force would be the only way to stop violence and ensure Georgia's territorial integrity.
"Let the world finally wake up and take the action and provide the real security for the region," Adamkus said.
Fighting has raged since Thursday when Georgia launched its crackdown on separatist fighters in autonomous South Ossetia, where most people have long supported independence.
Russian troops and tanks moved into South Ossetia on Friday and quickly pushed back the Georgian forces. Russian forces also moved into Abkhazia, another breakaway Georgian region.
Russia called a halt Tuesday to its military incursion, insisting it had been aimed at stopping Georgian military actions against its peacekeepers and citizens in the breakaway regions.
One Russian diplomat told CNN that as many as 2,000 people died after Georgia sent its military into South Ossetia.
Estonian President Toomas Ilves, who spoke at the news conference with Saakashvili, said Russia's actions threatened the independence of former Soviet nations.
"This is the first time that we've actually seen an invasion, a unilateral invasion of a country," Ilves said. "I think we have to think about this long and hard and deeply in the EU [and] in NATO."
Up to 100,000 people are thought to have been displaced in South Ossetia and Georgia. The United States, U.N. agencies, religious groups, and non-governmental organizations have started drives for humanitarian relief.
