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- BurningHills
- Rep: 15
Re: For the first time...
...I was NOT able to find a CD that I wanted in a store.
And the industry WONDERS why it's in the shape that it is?
I've been looking for the Faces' best of compilation: "Good Boys When They're Asleep" - which, as most know featured a pre-Stones Ron Wood and a before-he-sucked Rod Stewart. Surely Best Buy, Circuit City, or Barnes and Noble would carry a best of set by one of the most important rock bands ever, right?
Guess again.
The first thing I noticed after being in none of the above stores for a few months was how they DRASTICALLY cut back on the amount of CD's that they're carrying. Mostly flavor-of-the-month garbage and your typical best-of and catalog fare.
Now, I could have easily gone to my local indie chain which is right down the street from the above stores, but they can kiss my ass too. In this day and age, and with the economy and the music industry both in the gutter, they have the BALLS to charge list price for most of their stock. I'm sorry, but the days of me paying upwards of $18.99 for a single CD are long fucking gone. Not to mention that the "big box" stores are cheaper on the few new releases that I actually AM interested in, and they usually have some sort of bonus tracks. Indie stores are supposed to be the alternative to the major retailers, but they're just as bad, if not worse these days - and THEY wonder why THEY'RE going out of business too. Let's see, do I want to buy Chinese Democracy at my local indie for $18.99 and get a bare bones version, or go to Best Buy, pay MAYBE $11.99 tops on release day and get a bonus track or two? Gee - let me fucking think about that one.
For the first time, I'm seeing the death of the industry with my own eyes - I've been denying it to myself, but there's no looking back. The industry has killed itself, and while I may suffer a bit more, and not be able to find what I want in store (I just found the Faces CD on Amazon for $8 total ($5 + $3 shipping), this is long overdue for a bloated industry that is now reaping what it has sewn for way too long.
Live and Let Die, indeed.
Re: For the first time...
Yep, you hit the nail on the head. I don't even hardly buy cds anymore. Only cds I buy now are the few times I decide to buy a Bucket disc(not in stores), and of course when M.I.A. releases something(not often).
Last cd I bought was Santogold, and I didn't buy it in a store.
Selection at stores decreased awhile back. Its top 40 crap and like you said a small collection of GH sets. They offer nothing else, and as far as I know, wont special order anything for you.
Yeah, the industry has to die off. The sooner the better. Something will eventually take its place, but it has to die before we see any real steps in that department.
Mentioned this many times in similar discussions, but the industry FORCED consumers into downloading. I don't care what they say. Its a fact. I no longer feel guilty about downloading albums. Yeah, the artist gets ripped off as well as the label, but the artist was being ripped off anyways by the label creating the atmosphere of not being able to buy the product easily, so fuck em all. Artists/bands want my money, find a new way to sell it to me.
Examples...
Santogold and diplo released a "mixtape" cd recently. It had a "pre-release" on the Mad Descent site. With their outrageous shipping costs it was 40 bucks. Steep, and I bitched a bit, but it was how they were gonna make money from those wanting it before it leaked and/or had a normal release, so I bought it.
The NIN model is great as well. Give me your product free online, and when you release it normally, I'll buy it. I don't even like The Slip much, but that was a very innovative thing he did, and I'm gonna reward NIN by buying it on cd and vinyl.
Re: For the first time...
I tried to find a Faces album for at least six months. Any time I was in any store with cds I looked. I never found it. I felt just like you, with the rock pedigree of that band how can it be that hard to find.
I'm completely glossing over your actual point, but I'm still pissed I can't just go out and buy a Faces album, because the one that I finally just burned from one of my friends is fantastic.
I take that back, one Best Buy in the area had a box set, but I didn't want to have to pay $50 to hear it.
Re: For the first time...
I have found a total of two Buckethead cd's in stores, that's it. Of course the large retail stores don't carry him (like walmart, target, etc), but i found him at FYE. Still a big name store that doesn't carry much more than the most popular ones.
This business has gone to hell. It's about time.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: For the first time...
I had a similar experience this morning, I went into my local store to pick up the new Alice Cooper Album "Along Came a Spider" and was disapointed to find it doesn't exist here yet. Not sure if the store just sucked or if its an Australian delayed release. Very annoying though.
The problem in the industy is that at this point its catch 22. Most people download instead of buying. What people don't appriciate is that for the store to stock a CD costs them significant money invested in the products on the shelves. Many stores can't afford to tie up money in lines that don't move often enough. They just can't have the range they used to when sales dont justify it. So they cut their range. Then people like us can't find the CD we want, blame the industry and go download it because of the limited range, and that's then another CD that will never be sold...and the range will get slashed further. And it goes on.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: For the first time...
The NIN model is great as well. Give me your product free online, and when you release it normally, I'll buy it. I don't even like The Slip much, but that was a very innovative thing he did, and I'm gonna reward NIN by buying it on cd and vinyl.
Loads of respect to you james of course, but I have to disagree about the NIN business model. To me it makes no sence to give stuff out for free, and then charge dollars for the same product elsewhere. To me it's like why would I buy gas at the station, if I could legally get it for free where I buy my milk and bread!
To me the problem with the model is that it limits sales to the hardcore fans...those who respect the band and want to make a positive statement by paying for the album. But you totally loose the 'incidental' and casual type fans.
I'm an example of this with NIN. My only real knowledge of them was the crossover radio hits like "Closer", "The Perfect Drug" and probably 1-2 others. But I was interested to hear this album, partly cos I like what I know of them, and also to see what Robin fink's involvment had led to.
Now normally with albums...I like lossless audio...so i'll buy a physical CD over an itunes release (unless I cant find the CD for a long time) and generally buy stuff over downloading it - so i would have purchased this CD to hear robin. But what does trent do - he gives me a guilt free - 100% legal version of the album - and not just in pissy quality - but in better than CD quality audio options availible from his website. Pretty cool - thanks.
Then the good folks on here link me to the rehersal footage on youtube...which i ripped to watch back on my ps3 via my home theatre. I guess that was wrong technically..but at the time I didn't even realise it was from an offical release..thought it was more of a viral trent thingie.
So...the passage of time...and now finally the CD is avaliable here in the store..for around $29 AUD...with the bonus DVD. In theory I should buy it. But i'm struggling. It turned out I really dug the song discipline, but was basicly 'take it or leave it with the rest'. Although i'm not much of a fan I enjoyed seeing robin rock out with trent on the rehersal footage. But i'm looking at $29 dollars and thinking - i already have this video on my ps3, and worse, I already have lossless audio of the entire album on my pc - and that's even legal. And I just have to ask myself why would I pay out $29 more. I mean - I dig having physical art and the slips and actual CD and stuff...but not for $30 when i already have everything for free!
So what it came down to...was I could buy it, and have a physical product, and probably a cleaner video rip of the song I liked...but the curiosity fact was gone, i'd basicly be buying only to outright support trent and make a statement. Which no doubt NIN fans will do. But for me - a casual listener with a lossless free version - I just don't have a lot of $ to spend on records per month - and so basicly each month all the generes and artists i'm interested in hearing compete for my dollars- and I can't justify paying for soemthing I already had for free legally, when it means I could spent the same amount on something else new. Yet...had I had no download - i would have purchased this when it hit the stores out of curiosity. And that's my point - I feel that this model will payout for the hardcores that will pay to support the band - but people with only a mild interest or an interest due to an accosiation of another bandmember or other unusal interest in a CD, will take the free route...and that as a business practise its therefore illogical and flawed. Just my 2c 
Re: For the first time...
The problem in the industy is that at this point its catch 22. Most people download instead of buying. What people don't appriciate is that for the store to stock a CD costs them significant money invested in the products on the shelves. Many stores can't afford to tie up money in lines that don't move often enough. They just can't have the range they used to when sales dont justify it. So they cut their range. Then people like us can't find the CD we want, blame the industry and go download it because of the limited range, and that's then another CD that will never be sold...and the range will get slashed further. And it goes on.
Once again, we're back to blaming consumers. Did consumers kill the record store industry? Did consumers make their only choice to buy physical cds be Wal Mart, Best Buy, Circuit City,etc.?
The answer to those two questions is a resounding no. The industry killed itself. How people still cant see this amazes me. Maybe its a bit different in your country. Record store culture was a way of life. I feel sad for those too young to remember it. This culture was destroyed by....guess who? The record companies. They made deals with the big chains, and this put mom and pop stores out of business. You complain about shrinking shelf space for cds. If they hate shrinking space for cds, why in the fuck did they kill off record stores and allow massive retail chains to sell shit? Thankfully, God decided to give music lovers an option to hear music and viola!, mp3s hit the scene just in the nick of time. So while Wal Mart was forcing you to buy Britney, Christina,etc., you could download music you like, and could do it for free.
You had two options in the late 90's....
Download music you like for free
Buy Britney's debut album for $16.99 at Walmart
Take a guess which option I picked.
This was forced on consumers. Music lovers always paid the high sticker prices on LPs, cds, and cassettes and did very little complaining. Then the industry decided that not only did they want all our money, they wanted to choose exactly what we listen to and make it from as narrow of a range as humanly possible. Guess what? We didn't fall for it. MASSIVE p2p communities flourished, not because the music was free, but because it was the only way to get the music you wanted. This is something the record companies failed to grasp. It had nothing to do with wanting freebies and had everything to do with the love of music. Since they couldn't provide it, we'd provide it ourselves. As time passed and they tried suing music lovers, a whole generation grew up in the p2p era, and now its the status quo and no one gives two shits about cds.
When M.I.A's last album leaked, I downloaded it. Did I need a cd? No. I bought the cd and LP when they were released simply because I love her music and think she deserved sales from it. Had it not been accessible so easily(she has a brain and had the LP for sale on her own site), I wouldn't have attempted locating it. Not gonna go to every Best Buy, Wal Mart,etc. on a search for the holy grail when just 15 years ago every store in town would have had both formats on display. Had I went to walmart to buy Kala, I would have been forced to choose from Miley Cyrus or Kelly Clarkson instead. No thanks....
As far as your post about NIN, I think you're missing what was innovative regarding The Slip release. He didn't expect you to buy it. It was a gesture to fans for their loyal support over the years. The Slip cd/vinyl was ONLY offered for fans wanting a physical release. The reason the price is higher than other cds/LPs is because its limited edition(your copy is numbered), has a DVD of rehearsals, and has an extensive booklet inside.
Trent doesn't give a flying fuck whether you buy it or not. He's just giving you the option to buy it if you prefer an actual product in your hands. I do prefer having it, and even though I rarely listen to it, will have it on CD and vinyl.
What he did was not only "cutting edge", it puts a stake through the heart of the dying record companies because they are now realizing what people like myself have said for years......
It was never about the money. It was always about the access to music. Trent didn't even promote The Slip. He offered it out of the blue for free on the NIN website, almost 2 million have downloaded it already, and the physical release of an album people have been listening to for free for months just debuted at number 13 on the Billboard Top 200. Thirteen for an album no one was expected to buy and didn't need to buy because the artist freely gave it away.
Lets compare that to Baz and Angel Down. Baz promoted it nonstop for months. Not even to his own fans. He aimed his promotion at GNR fans by yelling Axl every nanosecond from Mount Everest. No tour, no video, no proper single in place ready for a promo blitz. Nothing but "Axl, Axl, Axl." His album debuted at 190 on the Billboard charts, and rightfully so. He didn't care about the music or establishing a connection with hardcore fans, he only cared about album sales. He then proceeded to bitch at fans for not buying it and still hasn't bothered to thank the few who did. Trent issued a thank you to fans before the download even began.
Nice strategy Baz. 
The role of the album has drastically changed. Your album isn't used to promote your tour, your tour is used to promote your album, and massive album sales are not to be expected. The bulk of your money comes from touring. The album helps to propel your recording career and legacy and to help create interest not just in current shows but future tours as well.
Baz- relic from the past gasping for air just like the record companies.
Trent and the NIN model is the future. Get used to it because its not going away.
Adapt or get steamrolled into irrelevancy.
Re: For the first time...
Great post James!
There is no way this was brought on by consumers, i fully believe that. The consumers have become the scapegoats for the record companies.
NIN is the way of the future, but it's going to be an even more difficult path for the bands coming out now. They now have to make and promote their own album and let it stand up against all the other bands out there trying to do the same on the internet.
Simply amazing that The Slip debuted at 13. That to me is increadible.
To be honest though, the Billboard 200 doesn't really mean anything anymore. A much better judge of a records success now is how many times it's downloaded and bought. If that's the case, The Slip would be number 1.
- Communist China
- Rep: 130
Re: For the first time...
They only sent out like 250,000 copies of The Slip too. That's proof that high sales weren't the goal. Their highest aim was half of gold status.
I don't know if The Slip format is the perfect one, but between that, In Rainbows release (which is nearly useless because they stabbed their fans in the back, AND never let out their financial figures for the online downloads), Niggy Tardust's release (which was a semi-failure, based largely on the gap between online release and physical release and the need for promotion for an unknown artist), and NIN's Ghosts, a better way is being hammered out.
I think the way to go is offer a physical with extras, but still offer the download to have a 'complete' feel (12-15 tracks, high quality audio choices, album artwork, lyrics, and credits). That's what NIN has done so well - they know that even in download form there is more to an album than merely the tracks within it.
There's been several albums I've had to order online. I usually go to FYE, because I won't go to Wal-Mart, Best Buy, or Target. If FYE doesn't have it, I really am left with no choice but to buy online or download.
