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Re: The Ultimate Showdown #2...WINNER ANNOUNCED
James Lofton wrote:This is gonna go down as one of those interesting threads that died because a leak happened.
I'm kidding.
But you aren't far off the mark James!! It's hard to talk about anything else when FINALLY we have real GNR news again. So...BUMP!! I know we have had some new sign ups here at Evolution so cast your votes everyone. Hagar is getting KILLED!! 9-1 as of now. Although I agree with the votes everyone needs to have a say so that is a VH fan one way or the other. Rock the Vote!! (insert Jessica Simpson pic in a patriotic tiny bikini eating a hot dog and waving a flag)
Wait... do I have to change my vote to Roth to see that... because I will.
Re: The Ultimate Showdown #2...WINNER ANNOUNCED
I have never gotten the Sammy hatred among the masses. I dig Roth, don't get me wrong, but I think (as I mentioned and Slinger said) the writing is hugely better with Sammy.
I really think when everyone else sees Roth, they just think- great front man, classic sound of Van Halen(which I can't argue with).
But when I see Roth, I think- Skat, lame spoken word bits, BATON TWIRLING, and I don't get why more people don't say Hagar.
But on that same line, Vince is the classic sound of Motley Crue and a good frontman, but Corabi wipes the floor with him from every angle, and I'll never understand how everyone doesn't think that... and most people don't seem to (but that's an arguement for another day).
Oddly enough, I know a bunch of people who say they really like Sammy solo, but don't like him with Van Halen. I never got that one either.
- Gunslinger
- Rep: 88
Re: The Ultimate Showdown #2...WINNER ANNOUNCED
Gunslinger wrote:James Lofton wrote:This is gonna go down as one of those interesting threads that died because a leak happened.
I'm kidding.
But you aren't far off the mark James!! It's hard to talk about anything else when FINALLY we have real GNR news again. So...BUMP!! I know we have had some new sign ups here at Evolution so cast your votes everyone. Hagar is getting KILLED!! 9-1 as of now. Although I agree with the votes everyone needs to have a say so that is a VH fan one way or the other. Rock the Vote!! (insert Jessica Simpson pic in a patriotic tiny bikini eating a hot dog and waving a flag)
Wait... do I have to change my vote to Roth to see that... because I will.
For that pic I would as well!!
I prefer Roth but I do like the Hagar stuff as well. In fact I think the last full album Hagar did with VH was his best although least successful. Balance had the rockers, the ballads and the in betweens down perfectly. I loved "Humans Being" from Twister as well although Edward basically says this was the beginning of the end of the group. He didn't like the fact that Sammy was wanting to do something more "Tornado" titled or something like that.
David does have a loud mouth and can be a total ass but man when he and VH pairs up it is like vodka and orange juice...the perfect mix!
Re: The Ultimate Showdown #2...WINNER ANNOUNCED
A question that should be asked concerning the Roth to Hagar transition is......
Was 5150 a natural progression from 1984? If so, does it absolve Hagar from any blame? Remember, there was only a two year window between these records.
There are hints of the 5150 direction on 1984, but in my opinion Roth would have kept that shit in check. He was pretty controlling regarding what he allowed to go on musically in VH. If Roth didn't want to do it, then it didn't happen. EVH still blames Roth for Diver Down(which I like).
So does a Roth VH album in 1986-87 have the same music as 5150, or does Roth force a change?
- Gunslinger
- Rep: 88
Re: The Ultimate Showdown #2...WINNER ANNOUNCED
Great questions/points James and by the way I liked Diver Down as well, Secrets/Hang 'Em High/Intruder/Where Have All The Good Times Gone?/The Full Bug ... noone can argue those are great tunes but at the same time (in my opinion) it was their weakest album to date.
In many ways 1984 was itself a natural progression from Diver Down but 5150 was overkill . There were some songs that were just unquestionably great such as Dreams/Best of Both Worlds/5150 but other than that most of the album was hit and miss. Some of the more popular songs like "Love Walks In" and the catchy "Why Can't This Be Love?" had great writing and even great EVH (albeit softer side EVH) licks but the "VH Flavor" wasn't quite evident. "The Inside" was probably the lowest point of the record as Hagar succumbed to actually try to imitate Roth's attitude with poor results.
I think Roth would have made the next album more "Rock N Roll". Look at the debut album...pure balls and guts rock. VHII is once again solid rock but with a bit more "radio friendly" tunes thrown in. Then what happens? You get Women and Children First and Fair Warning...both back to a solid rock sound and slightly less polished. Diver Down comes out and it is almost a mixture of the VHII feel mixed in with the rawer albums that followed, 1984 follows suit. Roth never let the band get into a stale mate situation. I think 1984 was as far as "pop" VH he was willing to go, the next album would have been much more raw in my opinion. I believe his excellent Eat Em and Smile is more what he was looking for as 1984's follow up.
So my answer to your question is no...a Roth VH album in 1986-1987 would NOT have been like 5150, Roth would have went back to a heavier, less "radio friendly" sound and the follow up would have been fairly similar to Eat Em and Smile...which to me would have been an improvement.
Re: The Ultimate Showdown #2...WINNER ANNOUNCED
Yeah, there are HUGE differences musically and lyrically between 5150 and Eat Em and Smile. Don't have sales figures on hand, but I'm pretty sure that Eat Em smoked it on the charts(I bought both).
I don't even consider 5150 a strong album. Best of Both Worlds the main highlight for me, and my cassette back then actually got worn out on that part of the tape. Eat Em and Smile very solid, although the covers are cringe inducing.
A Hagar track I would love Roth to have tackled is Finish What Ya Started, the only highlight on the abortion known as OU812.
- Gunslinger
- Rep: 88
Re: The Ultimate Showdown #2...WINNER ANNOUNCED
Yeah, there are HUGE differences musically and lyrically between 5150 and Eat Em and Smile. Don't have sales figures on hand, but I'm pretty sure that Eat Em smoked it on the charts(I bought both).
I don't even consider 5150 a strong album. Best of Both Worlds the main highlight for me, and my cassette back then actually got worn out on that part of the tape. Eat Em and Smile very solid, although the covers are cringe inducing.
A Hagar track I would love Roth to have tackled is Finish What Ya Started, the only highlight on the abortion known as OU812.
Finish What Ya Started...I never thought of this before but damn that's got Dave written all over it. Hell, come to think of it Sammy even tries to clone Dave's style a bit on this song. OU812 (I81B4U...lol!) had a couple songs I liked besides that one, I thought A.F.U. (Naturally Wired) and Sucker in a 3 piece was good but for the most part it became more evident that this was indeed Van Hagar now all the way.
Re: The Ultimate Showdown #2...WINNER ANNOUNCED
I need to download OU812 since I haven't heard it in ages. Only have Finish What Ya Started on my comp, and thats actually my fave Van Hagar track. Love the guitar work on it, and the lyrics actually have the fun, happy go lucky, dont take things seriously vibe missing since Roth left. I just remember OU812 being a bit too poppy for my tastes at the time(I was 13), and I doubt that feeling has changed now.
F.U.C.K. sucked and I never bought it. I still haven't heard Balance. Seriously.
A Roth VH reunion should have happened around 92. You had Dave with Crazy from the Heat, Eat Em, Skyscraper, and A Little Aint Enough, and Van Halen had 5150, OU812, and F.U.C.K.(who came up with those lame names??). That was plenty of time and material for Dave and Eddie to get out of their system and go back to the drawing board.
