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- jimmythegent
- Rep: 30
Re: The General confirmed next
Yes, it's interesting to note that Andy Wallace mixed CD initially - a master of the craft. You don't finish a mix then paste in other stuff on top - one differing instrument can change the whole sonic palette from an EQ perspective; (it needs to be done as a whole from the ground up) and seemingly that's exactly what happened. That is criminally amateurish, and it is on Axl I guess. Coupled with the mess that was the artwork and liner notes it certainly does not point to Axl being a perfectionist at all. Crippled by expectation and subsequent procrastination, sure. But that is not perfectionism.
I hadn't considered that maybe Axl's hearing is shot - but surely that's a reach for such poor mixes as Hard Skool and he should be delegating to the absolute best in class if that is in fact a factor.
Re: The General confirmed next
The 2 biggest issues imo (apart from it coming out years too late) with Chinese Democracy are:
- Mixing/editing
Ron's guitar is literally replacing Tommy's great bass. Imagine a version of The Wall were Roger Water's bass can't be heard and there's another guitarist playing parts instead that don't really fit in alot of places. I don't blame Ron personally, but whomever made this decision. I bet Duff never would have accepted it.
Not being able to hear Tommy really on the title track and the abomination that is Catcher in the Rye is indefensible.
Catcher is musically painful to the ears. The overdubs on the chorus on There Was A Time are weirder than on Perhaps.
Then ofc that bizzare Ryiad intro synth that they got sued over that adds nothing to the song.
- Poor track choice/flow
Sorry to those that love Shackler's, but it kills the vibe and the second verse is too long. Catcher again sounds out off place and even though I like Scrapped, it maybe should have been a b-side instead. It doesn't feel like an album, it's just a collection of songs that had previously been leaked with a few others that had been thrown in to pad it's length.
Re: The General confirmed next
Yes, it's interesting to note that Andy Wallace mixed CD initially
I'd love to hear a logical explanation why the album that was already mixed/mastered with all the songs done and supposedly a 2nd album, still didn't come out for another 2 years.
Merck probably didn't get why wasn't released either.
Re: The General confirmed next
I want this version of Chinese Democracy a few here have that apparently has "phenomenal" production and mixing. I'm really missing out.
On the version I have, the cut/paste in the songs is so noticeable it is jarring to the listener. Even if your ears decide to just go with the flow, you have to deal with Tommy being mixed out of the songs while Ron is tossed right on top of the songs.
How is this phenomenal?
Yeah I know...the master of masters did the mastering. I don't care.
Something is wrong when earlier versions of your songs sound better. All they needed was a final mix and master and it's ready to go.
well said sir.
Can’t wait for this track to hit! We’re almost in October baby!
- Miguelox26
- Rep: 5
Re: The General confirmed next
I have a hi fi and some good headphones and the album sounds great!....the mix I suppose will be a matter of taste, I love that wave of instruments, orchestra and synthesizers; intoxicating!.the solo in catcher I think it's great, just like the replacement in Shacker and Rihad; brutal!...the final mix of there was with Ron doing that riff gives it rawness and unites the song! The mixes of the last three singles are not so bad, the The problem is that Duff's contributions and especially Slash don't improve things! What rum did the Chinese take?....Slash has made a damn shitty amount of contributions, it's more like he removed parts of it!...he It's just a very big piece of shit and leaving the song without the rhythm makes it less emotional! Hard Skool is totally and absurdly compressed!....Do we want mixes?...We have the last three singles with three different ones, each one worse !.....slash plays like hell the Chinese material live and in the studio worse!....but friend I guess it will be a matter of taste!, greetings to all!
Re: The General confirmed next
New Tommy Stinson interview (he has said this before):
When talk turns to the atmosphere around the band around the 2008 release of Chinese Democracy, which emerged some 17 years on from the band's last original albums, 1991's Use Your Illusion I and II, Stinson tells Stocks that he looks on the period fondly, describing it as "a crazy, beautiful mess."
"That Jimmy Iovine pulled that record out of Axl's hands at the fucking 11.30th hour is the only disappointing part of that," he adds. "I don't know if it would have changed anything about the public's view of it, the only thing it would have changed was Axl's view of it. He was this close to being able to sign off on that fucking thing, and they pulled it just before he was completely ready to be going 'I'm done with it', it was just a little too quick on that. That's unfortunate. But all things considered, we made a great record."
Re: The General confirmed next
New Tommy Stinson interview (he has said this before):
When talk turns to the atmosphere around the band around the 2008 release of Chinese Democracy, which emerged some 17 years on from the band's last original albums, 1991's Use Your Illusion I and II, Stinson tells Stocks that he looks on the period fondly, describing it as "a crazy, beautiful mess."
"That Jimmy Iovine pulled that record out of Axl's hands at the fucking 11.30th hour is the only disappointing part of that," he adds. "I don't know if it would have changed anything about the public's view of it, the only thing it would have changed was Axl's view of it. He was this close to being able to sign off on that fucking thing, and they pulled it just before he was completely ready to be going 'I'm done with it', it was just a little too quick on that. That's unfortunate. But all things considered, we made a great record."
They just needed a little bit of patience. Funny that after taking so long, they still needed more time.
I agree with the decision to pull it though, at least it exists now and they could have closed the chapter and moved on. If they hadn't done that, it still wouldn't be out now.
- carlossacanell
- Rep: 1
Re: The General confirmed next
After 13-14 years a bit of patiente.... sounds funny
Re: The General confirmed next
CD sounds pretty crisp since it wasn't compressed to shit like every other rock album this century. As for the mix, it's not perfect but I don't see how it could be under the circumstances. As far as copy and paste goes, I think Hard Skool and Perhaps are far worse, in fact they are complete shit sonically imo. Of the new songs only Absurd was mixed well.
I definitely wasn't insinuating the reunion tracks are better. I was just talking about the actual album. You're right...it is worse. How could it not be? It's an extra layer added on top of already overcooked songs.
Everything 2008- present day is like this.
Hell... could the material even be fixed at this point?
- Poor track choice/flow
This can't be fixed without a complete overhaul of the track list to include CD II tracks. The rocker/ballad ratio is too off kilter for a good sequence.
It doesn't feel like an album, it's just a collection of songs that had previously been leaked with a few others that had been thrown in to pad it's length.
One of the unfortunate things about the CD saga....we never actually got the album we were supposed to get for a list of reasons.
Catcher is musically painful to the ears
Most of it is...but yeah that's THE example to show someone if discussing how the album turned out. That version of the song should not have been included under any circumstances.
I'm now glad Atlas wasn't included on the album because you can bet your ass it got the same treatment. Ron lobbying for its inclusion pretty much tells us he's all over it.
I'd love to hear a logical explanation why the album that was already mixed/mastered with all the songs done and supposedly a 2nd album, still didn't come out for another 2 years.
Merck probably didn't get why wasn't released either.
*Raises hand"
I know why it wasn't released earlier....
There wasn't anyone in the GNR camp capable of negotiating its release.
I have a hi fi and some good headphones and the album sounds great!...
Cone on now. Do we really need an audiophile dick measuring contest? This insinuates anyone who doesn't like it has some ancient boom box with blown speakers. 
On my Kenwood stereo with 16" woofers, everything sounds great to my ears...which are admittedly shot(Tinnitus).
Off the top of my head, the only music I can list which didn't sound good....
Chinese Democracy
Absurd
Hard School
Perhaps (ok on lower volume)
KISS - Hot In The Shade
There's probably a few others but nowadays I mainly just listen to my all time favorite music...which doesn't include much shit or badly produced/mixed albums.
Jimmy Iovine pulled that record out of Axl's hands at the fucking 11.30th hour is the only disappointing part of that,"
He was this close to being able to sign off on that fucking thing
This is insanity.... insinuating that tinkering with it even more would have somehow improved it!
It had already been overcooked to the point it's a burnt Peking Duck...how is cooking it more going to help?
What more did he want to do? Bury Bucket in the mix and add more Ron? Add Frank to more songs? Now that Finck is gone, wait until Ashba is hired so he can be added?
There was nowhere left for these songs to go. If anything, should've handed in a better selection of songs.
it was just a little too quick on that
Yeah...sure.
Thank God for Iovine and Azoff. Imagine the album where Azoff never comes in and it's still unreleased when the Ashba lineup is about to go on tour...and then hits the studio to put the "finishing touches" on the album.
Re: The General confirmed next
Most of it is...but yeah that's THE example to show someone if discussing how the album turned out. That version of the song should not have been included under any circumstances.
I'm now glad Atlas wasn't included on the album because you can bet your ass it got the same treatment. Ron lobbying for its inclusion pretty much tells us he's all over it.
I'm not an audiophile at all. But you can hear the cut and pasteness of most of the songs on there. It's jarring and you can tell it was pasted and not really seamless or natural.
