You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
- DoubleTalkingJive
- Rep: 74
Re: Baz talks about the general and the "trilogy"
monkeychow wrote:Its possible the trilogy thing is true. I mean in 2002 they said it, now again...I know people say like if they can't release 1 they can't release 3, but that kinda implies that they do them all in order like a normal band...if they already have 3 done by now (which they've had time for) then they can release a whole lot at once just as easily as releasing one....
Although i think the plan was for parts 2 and 3 to be released over the subsequent years..it would be funny if they released a tripple album on 1 day...that would be something to top UYI...lol
Don't get me wrong. I believe that they have 3 or 4 albums worth of material. Debating how far along (close to finished) all of it is is pointless, but I believe it exists. But until any of it is released, it doesn't matter much.
My biggest focus is that first album. I don't put any stock into what anyone (including Axl) says will happen after that for many reasons.
I agree, if this album triggers a waterfall affect and we get two more fairly soon after then that's awesome but right now I am also only caring about CD at this point getting released.
- Gunslinger
- Rep: 88
Re: Baz talks about the general and the "trilogy"
The material may exist and it probably does. Baz can be an airhead (I like his music more than some on here but a fact is a fact) but I don't think he is lying. My problem with the material is how much is simple retakes of the same material or just throwaways? That may be why there has been some discrepancy in the number of tracks as well. At some points this or that song may be considered "on the list" and then at others "scrapped". This in my mind is the main reason above all others why CD has still not seen the light of day. I think Axl knows that CD gained a large cult status (even if it has became more and more of a joke the past few years) and now it has to be at least very solid to not be the joke that will forevermore be the monkey on his back. It can't possibly live up to the hype that followed it but at least a very solid rock album would be somewhat "respectable" and then he could move on. The fear of the album being a joke and not respectable would explain him redoing track after track and trying to pick the best of the best.
Like DTJ and others have said before however, none of this trilogy talk means anything until we get CD. It's like saying "once I graduate college I plan on being the world's best surgeon" when you haven't even finished high school yet.
Re: Baz talks about the general and the "trilogy"
i disagree
the majority of non cd material is not throwaways. whether or not it is good is subjective but three albums worth of what he thinks is good material has been in the works for some time. axl has always had a vision toward doing something special since the original band broke up, more so than one decent album and 2 more albums of throwaways. this album has been delayed for more than twice as many reasons as any other album in the history of music but if the only goal was to put out one solid album it would have been out by now.
as an artist i can relate to axl. not everyone writes and records 13 songs and makes that into an album and then repeats. everyone has a different process and axl's seems to be focused on both quality and quantity, rather than time. if i were planning to put out three albums in a respectively short period of time, upon completion, and i wanted them to all be great there would be songs all over the place, some finished and some half or less finished. i admit it wouldn't take me this long but everyone is different and i do not know all of his obstacles. when you write you do what you are inspired to do at the time if you want it to turn out well.
i don't think they have been sitting on cd while they finish the other two so the "release chinese democracy and then concentrate on your trilogy" comment i keep reading really doesn't apply. at some point, the writing of the third album may have been more complete than cd for all we know.
- Gunslinger
- Rep: 88
Re: Baz talks about the general and the "trilogy"
i disagree
the majority of non cd material is not throwaways. whether or not it is good is subjective but three albums worth of what he thinks is good material has been in the works for some time. axl has always had a vision toward doing something special since the original band broke up, more so than one decent album and 2 more albums of throwaways. this album has been delayed for more than twice as many reasons as any other album in the history of music but if the only goal was to put out one solid album it would have been out by now.
as an artist i can relate to axl. not everyone writes and records 13 songs and makes that into an album and then repeats. everyone has a different process and axl's seems to be focused on both quality and quantity, rather than time. if i were planning to put out three albums in a respectively short period of time, upon completion, and i wanted them to all be great there would be songs all over the place, some finished and some half or less finished. i admit it wouldn't take me this long but everyone is different and i do not know all of his obstacles. when you write you do what you are inspired to do at the time if you want it to turn out well.
i don't think they have been sitting on cd while they finish the other two so the "release chinese democracy and then concentrate on your trilogy" comment i keep reading really doesn't apply. at some point, the writing of the third album may have been more complete than cd for all we know.
I respect your difference in opinion and actually hope you are correct but I feel there is too much assumption in your statements to know for sure. For example: "the majority of non cd material is not throwaways", there is no way to know this. I would argue the opposite based on stuff like Oh My God. Axl ended up calling it a "demo". I think a poor reception became "demo" magically. As far as Axl's vision it has been a very unclear one. Originally he was doing industrial flavored tracks for Chinese Democracy, look at what we have heard since. His vision has been altered as times changed (and musical tastes as well) while he played around with a over-a-decade-in-the-making album (or trilogy if you wish). A true "vision" is unaltered, it doesn't wane with trends.
As far as understanding him as an artist, I do and don't. I am a writer, have had a band, written songs (etc) and I am very much an obsessive compulsive but don't relate to what he has done. It seems more to me like he has a period when he is interested in the project and then a period when he just says fuck it. If this was truly his "vision" I would have expected a little more effort and a lot more results. As far as the quallity, well that has been extremely varied as well. Riyadh is "eh" at best, Madagascar is very hit and miss, Oh My God is...well, mediocre would be a compliment.
With these things said I want to state again I appreciate your opinion and the way you chose to state them, very non-confrontational and with class. That's what we need more of on the forums, people being able to state their opinions without being flamed. In the end even though I may disagree with some your ideas I really hope I end up being the one wrong! Three solid albums from W Axl Rose could certainly help me forget the long long road we took to finally get there.
Re: Baz talks about the general and the "trilogy"
some of the things Baz says are quite interesting....which could possibly shed some interesting light on the whole "negotiation" process which they say is happening now...
if he indeed has crafted this behemoth as a package which consists of more than one full record, chances are pretty good that one of the following scenarios could be "sticking" the process right now:
1. Money. He perhaps wants more money because he is not delivering an album but an album package instead, and feels its worth more than a single record. This combined with the fact that according to many, GH "plugged" the 13 million gap, his argument may easily be based on wanting a new deal altogether....and with Uni objecting to this, as they clearly see it otherwise...
2. Release dates. If he has some sort of a "conceptual" connection between multiple records and wants them released at specific intervals, he may want a guarantee that they will all be released with as much enthusiasm as the first record would be....i.e....same marketing spend, so as to get his message and vision across...and Uni suits may not like this....releasing the first album with a serious marketing push may be agreeable, but logic dictates that the other two's spend would be decided on by the success of the first one...and he may not like that, thus demanding what some may see as unreasonable...
hence the deadlock...
also, the 2012 thing....best case scenario, lets assume that this would be a release date for the final of the three records...with a year in between them....thus placing us at 2010 for the first one....say goodbye to this year and the next....unless the 2012 thing is the first record of the three...
for those gnr "historians"...do these dates carry any meaning within them....?...i.e...anniversaries of whatever in Axl's life or whatnot...?...sic...would you know?
Baz is a loudmouth, but his recklessness with these comments regarding Axl may just cost him his friendship....unless Axl is using him to fuck with us...who knows...
- Communist China
- Rep: 130
Re: Baz talks about the general and the "trilogy"
At the end of the day if I am alive when it comes out I will get on the first day, no matter what I say or how discontented I may be at the wait...
While this is true for myself as well it will affect how I promote GN'R to others. Had it come out in late 06 I would've been tellign all my friends and classmates to pick this album up, but when/if it comes out now, I MAY talk about it, but I will certainly burn it for anyone who wants it and encourage pirating of it instead of purchase.
