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Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?
Honestly, do you really care who wrote it at this point? The only real proof you have is that it came out of the Chinese Democracy sessions….end of discussion…anything else is our societies newfound concern with “conspiracy” theories and believing idiotic random message board trolls or any former band members who may not remember what was originally played or thought about.
Silliness over 2 songs that weren’t good enough for Chinese after 10 years of work on the album!
- FlashFlood
- Rep: 55
Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?
I believe it to be the Jackie Chan song, dating back to the end of the Slash era. Probably changed drastically but too much smoke there.
- davegnfnr2k
- Rep: 1
Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?
davegnfnr2k wrote:I think if it was Axl would have mentioned it before playing it live on tour.
And even if it was the song would be vastly different musically because the locker room version has BH and Robin written all over it.
Plus I cant see Axl putting anything on any of the albums from the 99-02 band with writing credits from slash or duff.Someone should ask Duff though if HS was written in 96.
Also remember that the original track list to CD was a little different and a couple of songs got swapped out bc of the leaks.
I do wonder if Hard School was one of the tracks that were going to make CD and were replaced by one of the leaks.
Wasn't CITR supposed to be on the "3rd album"The main structure is very Slash-like, very classic Guns. Only the pre riff intro (which was removed) and verse riffing and the outro tapping/shredding are Paul/Finck staples. The main structure and riff is very much like a Slash riff, especially if you consider his stuff from 95-2000
Also, HS was credited to Axl, Slash, Duff, Paul, Robin, Tommy. No BH credit on HS.
Per Marc Canter, Axl has indicated back in 2001 that there were 3 songs Axl wanted to have Slash be on on CD, if Slash would publicly apologize and repudiate statements Axl felt were lies. So in 2000-2001 his feelings hadn’t really turned to the visceral hatred for Slash that they did by 2008. Slash’s book, the 2005 visit, and I’m sure other things we don’t know about behind the scenes did a lot to harden his feelings more after 2001. If you go back and read his RS interview from 2000, he sounds more regretful/sad than hateful regarding Slash.
Slash and Duff being credited doesn't prove they wrote back in 96, it just means they got credited for the parts they added now.
Also estranged has no slash credits yet slash is all over the song.
Also a lot of what BH did was just added his solos and stuff to the CD songs besides the couple he brought to the table that made the album. That is why there are so many songs with and without him just different takes. Take TWAT for example. BH gets no writing credits for TWAT yet his guitar parts are the best on that song
Also with writing credits, you can give whomever you want credits on the song. so since Duff and slash helped re-do the song Axl just gave them writing credits.
Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?
misterID wrote:I think it was a Robin/Tommy/Freese song. Duff and Slash probably got credit for restructuring the song
This. Paul might have had a hand in it too. It wasn't a song from 96.
Paul was around and working in the studio with Axl and Dizzy in 96. Slash was barely musically involved. His main musical involvement seems to end in January 1995 with the Zakk Wylde sessions, and then he went off on tour with Snakepit from February to August 1995.
Then in 1996 he was doing shows with Slash’s Bluee Ball, stuff for MJ’s HiStory album, making appearances. His life was very separate from GN’R, even if he was still officially “in the band.”
He said in 1996 he hadn’t seen Axl in roughly 3 years. Basically, he hadn’t seen Axl in the flesh since he went off on tour with Snakepit
The last time Axl and Slash are even fully confirmed to be in the same room, at the same time, for music reasons was when Slash went to try to talk to Axl during the Sympathy sessions in October 1994.
You have Axl’s press release which said Slash hadn’t been involved musically since 1994 outside of a brief “feel period” in 1995.
In September 1996 Slash said he had only been “back in the band” his words, for “three weeks”
It’s certainly possible Paul, Duff etc was coming up with stuff while he was mostly gone. Like Duff did those unasked for demos with Izzy alone for Guns in April 1995, but Izzy had no involvement with Slash or Axl on it.
It was all very fragmented and fractured after Slash did Snakepit and went off on the road.
Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?
This I Love and Oklahoma were songs from the Slash era. But it seems like the majority of those songs weren’t pursued. What we know is that Robin, Tommy, Josh and Paul (I forgot about him) wrote a shitload of music over several years. Bucket and Brain wrote their own GNR music during that period on top of adding their parts on others. I think the songs from 96 Tommy talked about has kind of been overblown.
- davegnfnr2k
- Rep: 1
Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?
This I Love and Oklahoma were songs from the Slash era. But it seems like the majority of those songs weren’t pursued. What we know is that Robin, Tommy, Josh and Paul (I forgot about him) wrote a shitload of music over several years. Bucket and Brain wrote their own GNR music during that period on top of adding their parts on others. I think the songs from 96 Tommy talked about has kind of been overblown.
This I love was piano only. Even when it was up for that Robin Williams movie, it was just a piano piece so Duff and slash had nothing to do with it
This is the info we have about Oklahoma
"[Oklahoma] was inspired by a court date with ex-wife Erin Everly. 'I was sitting in my litigation with my ex-wife, and it was the day after the bombing, [April 20th, 1995]' Rose remembers with a wince. 'We had a break, and I'm sitting with my attorneys with a sort of smile on my face, more like a nervous thing - it was like, 'Forgive me, people, I'm having trouble taking this seriously.' It's just ironic that we're sitting there and this person is spewing all kinds of things and 168 people just got killed. And this person I'm sitting there with, she don't care. Obliterating me is their goal.'" (Axl, Rolling Stone, 2000)
"As the far as the songs go: 'Oklahoma' was pretty much written by the time they got to the studio. Axl wrote that with inspiration from the Oklahoma City bombing (more as a tribute to those who died, if I'm not mistaken). [...] (Dave Dominguez, Sp1at, 02/07/05)
[...] Song after song combines the edgy hard rock force and pop smarts of vintage Guns N Roses with surprisingly modern and ambitious music textures. In addition to the album's almost grungy title track, tentative song titles include 'Catcher in the Rye,' 'I.R.S,' 'The Blues', [...] 'Oklahoma' - heard tonight only as an instrumental, [...] and 'TWAT,' which he says stands for 'there was a time.'" (Rolling Stone, 01/2000)
Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?
Slash: “Hard Skool,” in essence, was a completed song when I was first introduced to it. And Duff and I went in and redid the bass and the guitars. [February 2022]
https://www.a-4-d.com/t4135-hard-skool
So if it's from 1996, Slash wasn't involved with it then and it was only Duff and Matt.
It could be two different songs. Duff said Axl was a big Jackie Chan fan, so it's likely that he gave that working title to another, later song.
