Could the first Snakepit album have been a good record with Axl / Duff

Wilco

Thoughts?

metallex78

Absolutely it could have. But who’s word do we believe on the matter?

According to Axl, Slash wouldn’t budge on changing any of the songs to make it a more collaborative effort.

And according to Slash, Axl didn’t like any of the songs when he first presented them to Axl.

As much as love Slash, I think he had just as big an ego as Axl did back then, and didn’t want to compromise any of his material either.

AgesOfTheIce

Tracks like Beggars and Be The Ball have top tier riffs. The thing is Axl was simply uninspired to work on this kind of material at the time. He did seem willing to use a few songs, but I assume they would have gone through an "industrial mix" in the production process.

James

I believe Slash on this subject.

Other than appearing on Gilbys Dead Flowers and that Stones cover, Axl didn't appear to be interested in anything in this timeframe.

I can completely buy him rejecting this stuff and then when he finds out Slash moved forward with it and is essentially doing a GNR record without Axl no matter what, he all of a sudden was interested....but by then it was too late to keep the material in house. Already has a singer.

Having said that...and as someone who loves about half that record....the project was a mistake. It caused everything GNR to grind to a complete halt.

It then got worse during the next round of tension, Duff and Matt did the exact same thing with Neurotic Outsiders.

A pattern emerges....there's only one guy in GNR preventing any forward movement...

Axl.

In the span of three years, what appeared to be a good lineup(93-94 GNR) loses Gilby...Slash...Matt...and Duff.

It's over.

In it's wake is a bunch of faceless members rotating in(Huge, Pitman, Finck)...only Stinson gives it an ounce of cred.

Then the real clusterfuck begins.

Snakepit was not worth it. Some sort of compromise should've been made. Use half the material for GNR and throw the rest in the vault.

Also....take your time on the material. Axl clearly isn't ready. Work on it with a plan for a 96-97 comeback....same time as Metallica and U2.

Snakepit altered all of their careers and discographies. There's GNR albums in an alternate timeline that will never exist because of it.

One other thing about that same timeframe...

The issue with Huge/Tobias needed to be resolved quickly. Slash should've been smart enough to know that. You don't let something like that continue to build.

Miguelox26

Snakepit es muy monotomo y como album es normalito!....pero tiene muy buenos riff y algun buen solo tambien!....tambien tiene mala leche y eso slash lo perdio!...chinese tiene mejores riff y mejores solos!....el disco d slash es rockero y chinese es metal alternativo!....como obra chinese es mucho mas variada y esta mejor ejecutada!....chinese rules!....p.d. a slash le duro poco el estilo d snakepit, ficho a un cantante d alternativo y salio velvet revolver y hay chinese lo arrasa y lo combierte en obra maestra!

monkeychow

I believe them both.

At the time Axl was into industrial and stuff and synths and big production, so a pre-written finished record that's pure guitars not only doesn't respect his role too much as a singer/writer but doesn't immediately get the juices flowing the way listening to other bands was. So in that respect Slash is probably right that Axl rejected it (in terms of it being AS IS) and wasn't keen on it.

On the other hand I also believe Axl that he would have put them into his Lab and turned them into stuff he did approve of. Problem is we all know that takes years/decades and even without a dispute you'd be looking at 2 years (see UYI/TSI) or so. Slash just didn't have the patience for that - some of which was because of the BS in the band already, and a good bit of it was because he uses more drugs when unproductive and needed to get shit going again.

So I think they are both at fault. Slash for being a junkie. Slash for being impatient. Slash for disrespecting Axl's superior lyrical abilities. Axl for pushing the band into new genres. Axl for creating a communication wall with managers/no-showing/late nights/agression that made it easier for people to do their own thing than keep trying to deal with it. Axl for not recognising how great some of that playing really is.

I think it's the lost GNR record really. The guitar sound and style is pure AFD style guitars. With Axl's re-structuring and his lyrics - the output would have risen above the genre record it became and be an absolute monster GNR record. I think it would have been a great return to AFD style rawness for those who found the UYI records bloated. Or alternatively you could add Axl songs like TIL and make a UYI3.

I mean I enjoy it as it is. But damn they should have sorted their shit out back then. Look at slash doing stuff like Dime Store Rock live and you see the power in the material.

elevendayempire

It's hugely frustrating to hear the potential in the songs written and recorded around that time, and consider what could've been. Like you say – Slash, Duff and Gilby came up with some great riffs in that period, but the lyrics were – at best – good. With Axl's lyrical touch and his ear for elevating a song through production and arrangement (but not the over-production that turned some ChiDem songs into a mess) they could've been *great*.

And similarly, in the Axl tracks of that vintage you can hear the potential. If he'd recorded TIL back then, with Slash doing something like his Orlando '16 solo, it could've been another November Rain.

RaZor

Miguelox26 wrote:

Snakepit es muy monotomo y como album es normalito!....pero tiene muy buenos riff y algun buen solo tambien!....tambien tiene mala leche y eso slash lo perdio!...chinese tiene mejores riff y mejores solos!....el disco d slash es rockero y chinese es metal alternativo!....como obra chinese es mucho mas variada y esta mejor ejecutada!....chinese rules!....p.d. a slash le duro poco el estilo d snakepit, ficho a un cantante d alternativo y salio velvet revolver y hay chinese lo arrasa y lo combierte en obra maestra!

100%

Miguelox26

Izzy!....izzy y axl era el potencial!...y no menosprecio al conjunto original!...la ritmica de izzy y la lirica de axl montaban canciones de cojones y slash era la guinda para los solos!...pero no nos engañemos los solos de izzy y axl!....siempre hablamos de como toca slash y por supuesto tio que toca del carajo pero a nivel compositivo era izzy y la quimica de axl para componer las partes de guitarras que eran el sonido guns clasico!....p.d hollywood rose lo dice todo y comfirma lo de izzy y axl!

Izzyjim

From Duff's book, about Snakepit and Huge:

One of the points of conten-
tion between Slash and Axl was a batch of songs Slash brought to the
table. Axl thought it was Southern rock-not Guns N' Roses material.
backed Axl,

This wasn't some wedding band you could just bring friends into. If I
wasn't going to bend for the sake ofone of my best friends- Slash, and his
Southern-rock songs - I sure as hell wasn't going to let a stranger come in
and fuck around with Guns

So it's a bit more than Axl vs Slash here..

I'll try to find it, but I remember an interview with Duff where he said that Axl really digs Neurotic Outsiders, and he hopes to get him as a guest one of the nights

Edit: Found one reference

"I came into (Guns N' Roses) rehearsal last night and Axl goes, 'Dude… this record … is amazing. It's so important.' And he was singing the words to every song."

Re: Could the first Snakepit album have been a good record with Axl / Duff

Re: Could the first Snakepit album have been a good record with Axl / Duff

Re: Could the first Snakepit album have been a good record with Axl / Duff

Re: Could the first Snakepit album have been a good record with Axl / Duff

Re: Could the first Snakepit album have been a good record with Axl / Duff

Re: Could the first Snakepit album have been a good record with Axl / Duff

Re: Could the first Snakepit album have been a good record with Axl / Duff

Re: Could the first Snakepit album have been a good record with Axl / Duff

Re: Could the first Snakepit album have been a good record with Axl / Duff

Re: Could the first Snakepit album have been a good record with Axl / Duff

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