You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Re: Current Events Thread
The whole conversation around these issues (and others) would be better served by being cooled down. How that happens, I don't know. I think finger pointing and blaming "left" or "right" for this is dumb "they started it" nonsense. At the end of the day, this can all be discussed without being disrespectful.
Whether someone think trans people should be in the gendered spaces they identify with or not, whether they should compete in the same sports or not - can at least discuss the issue respectfully and not throw slurs at them. The grooming stuff is offensive because it's been a common trope for decades to label gay people and later trans people as child groomers and paedophiles. It's a really fucked up accusation to paint a whole community of people with. At the end of the day LGBT+ people have faced discrimination and persecution for years, when they explain why certain things are hurtful to them or dangerous in terms of potentially inciting violent actions against them they should be listened to and not dismissed.
On the education aspect of this. I see nothing wrong with the notion of homosexuality or transgendrism being explained to kids at a level that is appropriate and that they can understand. It doesn't actually need to involve any sex ed. Kids know that grown ups have marriages or have boyfriends/girlfriends. It isn't radical to say some boys like girls, some like boys, some like both and just leave it at that. That being something represented in early years education isn't inflammatory and has nothing to actually do with sex. As for transgenderism - it doesn't have anything to do with having sex anyways and a kid friendly explanation should be as simple as "Some people are determined to be boys or girls when they are younger but later realise that they feel more comfortable being the other way around". Leave it at that as far as early years education and I can't see the issue.
That story about those boys being accused of sexual harassment is nonsensical and bizarre. Were they being rude and indignant by not being respectful and identifying their classmate the correct way? Yes. Could that be seen as abusive, bullying, harassing or even discriminatory behaviour? Possibly, yes. But it isn't sexual harassment which would require derogatory comments about the victim of a sexual nature to be made or unwanted physical contact.
Re: Current Events Thread
When schools are declining, when students are behind in all subjects, teachers need to stay in their lane and teach, not mold kids ideological views. Explaining pronouns and sexuality doesn’t need to be taught to six year olds. If they want to do that, just get the parents permission. And don’t have “secret clubs” and lessons that kids “don’t tell your parents about.” These are the things parents are angry about. This really happened, not because of politics, but during the lockdown when parents saw what their kids were being taught.
Re: Current Events Thread
When schools are declining, when students are behind in all subjects, teachers need to stay in their lane and teach, not mold kids ideological views. Explaining pronouns and sexuality doesn’t need to be taught to six year olds. If they want to do that, just get the parents permission. And don’t have “secret clubs” and lessons that kids “don’t tell your parents about.” These are the things parents are angry about. This really happened, not because of politics, but during the lockdown when parents saw what their kids were being taught.
No…
Blaming schools for this is too easy. Parents who choose to obfuscate their responsibilities to raise their children then simultaneously blaming the schools is an outstanding joke on society.
Believe or not, parents aren’t always right.
I remember early in my career when I was much younger making a couple of suggestions about a behavioral issue in a particular child was encountering, the mother told me to fuck off. And that until I have a kid I need to shut the fuck up.
It was shortly after that that I decided that I would never work in public school district again.
The public doesn’t want education. They want publicly subsidized baby sitting.
Re: Current Events Thread
Wtf are you talking about? They are teaching children gender identity/sexuality. The parents don't want them to. End. Just stop.
Where is that happening? Stop raging about a fucking talking point.
Amazing you can win entire elections based on a fake premise.
Meanwhile i actually have kids in public school…none of this shit is happening.
Re: Current Events Thread
Mitch, maybe accidentally, touched on a sort of good moral point when he said parents aren't always right. Not one really to debate but to reflect on.
I remember getting taught about the civil rights and suffragette movements when I was growing up. I also remember as part of divinity studies getting taught about various different religons, their beliefs and practices. I also remember being taught about contraception, despite going to a Catholic school, because it was part of the national curriculum and had to be taught.
If I had parents whose personal viewpoints disagreed with any of those topics, or disagreed with me being taught about them, are they in the right if they complain to the school or government and demand I am not taught about them? By modern standards learning that racism is bad, women being able to vote is good and knowning about safe sex practices all seem like sensible things to be taught. Rewind like just 10-20 years before I was in school and some would have objected to those things being mentioned.
On the topic at hand. I don't see how it's harmful to explain to kids that some people are born a boy or girl but later realise they are more comfortable identifying the opposite way. Also, don't see how it's harmful to acknowledge that some kids in the class might have two moms or two dads instead of a mom & dad.
I don't know the extent of the education being offered in various states in the US, but those two key points can be delivered in an uncontroversial and age appropriate manner and it seems really close minded to say that they can't be. Schools don't just teach kids maths, literature, languages and science. They also teach kids about the modern world we live in, about society and prepare them for life in general. It's why schools also teach things like cooking etc. as well.
Re: Current Events Thread
And an on topic read about how things are done in other countries.
https://dukecenterforglobalreproductive … therlands/
Key quote
Dutch sexuality education begins as early as age four, when children receive lessons on relationships, appropriate touching, and intimacy. The curriculum expands to include age-appropriate topics and concepts. Seven-year-olds learn the proper names of different body parts and eight-year-olds discuss gender stereotypes. By the time they are 11, Dutch students should be able to discuss reproduction, safer sex, and sexual abuse.
Data suggest that the Dutch approach to sexuality education is incredibly effective. On average, teens in the Netherlands do not have sex at an earlier age than those in other European countries, and they tend to have positive first sexual experiences. Dutch teens are among the top users of the birth control pill, and nine out of ten used contraceptives the first time they had sexual intercourse. The Netherlands boasts one of the lowest rates of teen pregnancy in the world, as well as low rates of HIV and other STIs. While widely accessible contraception certainly contributes to this, a growing body of research suggests that starting comprehensive sexuality education at a young age helps avoid unintended pregnancies and sexually transmitted infections.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Current Events Thread
I remember getting taught about the civil rights and suffragette movements when I was growing up. I also remember as part of divinity studies getting taught about various different religons, their beliefs and practices. I also remember being taught about contraception, despite going to a Catholic school, because it was part of the national curriculum and had to be taught.
My public education in America that began in the later part of the 1980s was similar. I sang “We shall overcome” in Kindergarten. While all children are exposed to the biases of their family, the American education system for those now 45 and below has been crystal clear in its message that all Americans are equal under the law and negative stereotypes based on race are wrong and inappropriate. I had sex education in the 6th grade (11-12 year olds) and understood sexual anatomy as early as 6. We studied the civil rights era and every other aspect of American history to include detailed instruction on slavery and concepts such as Manifest Destiny and the “relocation” of Native Americans to include the Trail of Tears. What we don’t have in the states are classes on religion. Or as much as a history book favored towards European settlement and colonization can be absent of religious concepts.
You seem to be under the impression that your own education is unique or that American students aren’t show an erect penis and the proper application of a condom before they’re teenagers. While that may be true in Catholic or other religious schools, those are separate from the American public education system the overwhelming majority of students attend. And my experience isn’t an outlier. I grew up in one of the poorest, backwards, white Anglo-Saxon god fearing areas of Appalachia. All the local churches protested and lost their minds when Manson came to town in 96. Point being if ever there was an area that would hinder progressive education, I was smack in the middle, and you learned more about Christianity and it’s advocacy in your school than I did.
The American you think exists where 15 year old girls in a public school don’t know how to get condoms or what happens if “ they go all the way” isn’t real. Never say never, but extra outliers are exactly what they claim to be. The majority of underage pregnancies occur in urban areas most immune from Puritanical leftovers.
If I had parents whose personal viewpoints disagreed with any of those topics, or disagreed with me being taught about them, are they in the right if they complain to the school or government and demand I am not taught about them?
Shouldn’t they? I’m not a parent (yet), but the obligation of any parent first and foremost is to teach and prepare their child to survive and the rules of the world. You and I agree that responsibility absolutely entails what we’d both label a quality education. But other parents are free to believe differently because it’s their child. The courts are able to intervene in clear cases of abuse - children of white supremacist trying to indoctrinate being a great example. Most states require children be enrolled in public school until 16 years of age, but it was possible for a parent to withdraw their student from some of those topics. The problem isn’t necessarily the subject, it’s the way it’s taught and the advocacy for it. And many people believe parents have a right to withdraw their child from certain instruction. If you genuinely felt the curriculum being taught to your child was wrong/harmful, wouldn’t you want that option?
On the topic at hand. I don't see how it's harmful to explain to kids that some people are born a boy or girl but later realise they are more comfortable identifying the opposite way. Also, don't see how it's harmful to acknowledge that some kids in the class might have two moms or two dads instead of a mom & dad.
Because the first example is incredibly rare as a diagnosis and almost completely undefined in the public discourse. Find a definition on transgenderism that is objective and quantifiable. Telling children that the fantasies and delusion of certain adults must be accepted blindly is bad. That’s not to say children shouldn’t be taught to tolerate and empathize with others. Just that my child isn’t required to acknowledge that there is no distinction of importance and value between Catelyn Jenner and JK Rowling.
Being taught equality in school and that people of the same sex marrying is legal and equitable is okay. Making schools a safe space for vulnerable teenagers confused about their sexual identity or place in this world is fine. Telling 7 year olds that men can become women or that human beings are anything more than sexually dimorphic creatures with a broad range of physical features, interests, beliefs, customs and expression is an agenda. An agenda to blindly and through shaming to pretend trans-women are women. I believe in your right to accept that and live and think according to that maxim. But it’s not a position backed in science or even biology. I can define a man/male by stating the presence of a Y chromosome and in nearly every instance save mutilation or mutation, a penis and testicles will serve as their reproductive organs. Conversely I can define a woman/female as someone with two X chromosome, and the presence of breasts and a vagina with a clitoris in nearly every instance save mutilation or mutation. There isn’t an in-between. Any other nomenclature or group you or others want to ascribe under the umbrella of “gender” are arbitrary and capricious and totally lacking any criteria to classify. Cogito ergo sum works to prove your consciousness is real, but it doesn’t apply to biological systems.
