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Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
Was there a way of getting out of Afghanistan without negotiating with the Taliban? There's no way Trump came up with that on his own, so it had to be the generals. This means they've known for a while the country would inevitably fall.
I do think it's funny that both sides blame the other while also taking credit for it. You can't say Trump was wrong for making a deal, then praise Biden for having the guts to follow through with said deal and end the war. There's a lot of people talking out of both sides of their mouths.
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
Was there a way of getting out of Afghanistan without negotiating with the Taliban? There's no way Trump came up with that in his own, so it had to be the generals. This means they've known for a while the country would inevitably fall.
I do think it's funny that both sides blame the other while taking credit for it. You can't say Trump was wrong for making a deal, then praise Biden for having the guts to follow through with said deal and end the war. There's a lot of people talking out of both sides of their mouths.
Agreed completely. No way to leave without negotiating. It's what was negotiated that is the problem.
Deal was shit and negotiated for sake of optics. Biden picks it up and follows through on it for exact same reason. Then on top of that he makes a hash of the evac.
Both sides of the divide seem to be pointing fingers at each other. There's plenty of blame for all camps in IMO.
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
Biden:
Referring to Doocy, Biden said, “The reason why — whether my friend will acknowledge it or has reported it — the reason why there were no attacks on Americans, as you said, from the date until I came into office was because the commitment was made by President Trump, ‘I will be out by May 1. In the meantime, you agree not to attack any Americans.’ That was the deal. That’s why no American was attacked.”
So it was a good deal until you screwed the pooch? While trying to shit on it, he makes it sound almost perfect.
He is so easily flustered. He also realized he's in over his head when this reporter isn't going to just stand there and nod.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
misterID wrote:Was there a way of getting out of Afghanistan without negotiating with the Taliban? There's no way Trump came up with that in his own, so it had to be the generals. This means they've known for a while the country would inevitably fall.
I do think it's funny that both sides blame the other while taking credit for it. You can't say Trump was wrong for making a deal, then praise Biden for having the guts to follow through with said deal and end the war. There's a lot of people talking out of both sides of their mouths.
Agreed completely. No way to leave without negotiating. It's what was negotiated that is the problem.
Deal was shit and negotiated for sake of optics. Biden picks it up and follows through on it for exact same reason. Then on top of that he makes a hash of the evac.
Both sides of the divide seem to be pointing fingers at each other. There's plenty of blame for all camps in IMO.
You've said this twice now. How is anyone else responsible for the manner the US had left Afghanistan over the past 8 months, specifically the midnight withdrawal from Bagram? Please explain it, because it's only been a talking point Biden stutters through after he claims culpability. So I'd really like your explanation on how anyone but Biden has any ownership in the manner the US withdrawal without any plan.
I'm really interested in how any administration or nation besides the US under Biden has any culpability in this botched withdrawal. If you're going to say it, please expand on how the nightmare at Kabul and citizens left in the nation is on anyone but Biden. I know it'll be hard for NATO allies to recognize they're solely dependent on the US and lack any real force projection, otherwise your leaders would have gotten your people out quicker too. But quit trying to both sides it. Joe Biden was solely responsible for drafting the withdrawal plan and timeline, he ignored everything the Trump administration agreed on.
This isn't love for Trump. This is about keeping the topic on scope of the fiasco in Afghanistan and not projections and fantasies of what would be different in an alternate reality.
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
Once we hit the May deadline, doesn't it morph from Trump's plan into Bidens plan?
Not exactly the same thing of course but it would be like Clinton blaming the Mogadishu cluster fuck on Bush.
At some point you have to own it.
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
At the end of the day, Biden said he wanted out of Afghanistan. Trump gave him the opportunity to do that with his deal. He's had eight months to make the exit work. He even have himself an extra three months. Everything that's coming out is that Biden overruled his generals and intelligence agencies, didn't take their advice, and made these decisions himself. I just don't think we can blame Trump for this.
There wasn't going to be a good way out, but we needed a way out. But it didn't have to be like this. The evacuations should have started months ago.
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
BREAKING @ABC — US special operations vets carried out daring mission to save Afghan allies — 500 smuggled into Kabul Airport on Weds night in complex, heart-pounding op by Americans determined not to leave comrades behind
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-spec … d=79670236
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
To clarify what I've been saying: Trump tee'd it up, Biden took the ball ran and ran with it.
At the end of the day whilst mistakes clearly made prior to Biden, he had ample opportunity to reverse course. He chose not to and then executed it poorly. I've said that all along and not sure why some of you are trying to say I haven't. It feels like 20%/80% blame share to me for the Trump/Biden admins respectively. And that's as far as US blame goes. As for other NATO allies they do seem like thumb twiddlers on all this until shit hit the fan.
It's not both sidesing this. It's looking at the history of this withdrawal from deal through to execution and seeing the points where it went wrong.
The only excuse Biden sort of has is that to renege on the deal means a proactive decision to re-engage. Something that he seems to have seen as untenable. After that though, it's on him to handle it and it's been handled very poorly.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
BREAKING @ABC — US special operations vets carried out daring mission to save Afghan allies — 500 smuggled into Kabul Airport on Weds night in complex, heart-pounding op by Americans determined not to leave comrades behind
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-spec … d=79670236
I don't know how I feel about this. Rogue Black Ops isn't something I think I can get behind. I understand their passion and desire to do something the current Administration is incapable of doing, but non-active military operating without SecDef approval sets a very, very bad precedent.
