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Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
Biden needs to be realistic and not try to make excuses in his speech today. Explain we’ve spent the past 10 years in Afghanistan specifically to train the Afghani army. We’ve gone over battle plans and strategy with them. They have all the Intel we had. And they lacked the conviction to make even the most basic stand against a bunch of insurgents who lacked a decade of US military training. I can respect that, cause it’s the truth.
This is what i can’t wrap my head around. The Afghan army just did nothing. Did they ever want to fight the Taliban? Or was the U.S. training them to do something they never had the heart to do, like when a parent pushes a kid into sports who really isn’t into it.
I do believe Biden and the intelligence community were shocked. I believe them because they probably thought the Afghanis would put up at least some resistance. They didn’t even put up symbolic resistance.
It’s crazy to think after 20 years everyone expected this to happen weeks or months from now. There was no expectation the Taliban wouldn’t take over. There was no hope in the Afghan army. It’s mind boggling.
And yes, this is a Biden fuckup. He’s the man in charge. But we all know this has been wrong for a long, long time.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
On the positive side the Afghan people have finally gotten self determination back. More than my country can say.
I generally define self determination in this context to mean plurality of a democratic vote. But you can certainly argue their lack of any defense and quick collapse to Taliban rule is indicative they never wanted a western government. Russia certainly agrees with your point for what it's worth.
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
polluxlm wrote:On the positive side the Afghan people have finally gotten self determination back. More than my country can say.
I generally define self determination in this context to mean plurality of a democratic vote. But you can certainly argue their lack of any defense and quick collapse to Afghan rule is indicative they never wanted a western government. Russia certainly agrees with your point for what it's worth.
Technically, but I think the immediate white flag from a numerically superior army with better training and equipment expresses democratic will a lot more than some recent elections I know about.
Of course some elements will never accept this premise because it would suggest there are people who prefer head severing theocracy over "the Western way of life". Might inspire some dangerous reflection.
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
Well, we took away their intelligence, logistic capabilites, air support and basically grounded their air force. We didn't do them any favors and pretty much hamstrung them. Reading the Taliban have already executed some military officers.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
Well, we took away their intelligence, logistic capabilites, air support and basically grounded their air force. We didn't do them any favors and pretty much hamstrung them. Reading the Taliban have already executed some military officers.
I disagree with this assessment. We spent the past 10 years developing each of those for their internal use. If the UK pulled out of a joint conflict at the drop of a hat, we wouldn't say they took our intelligence and supply chain. We're capable of supporting those on our own. Those two are the most important part of any military conflict, so you're right in the sense that comparing Afghani capabilities to US is an unfair (and unreasonable) comparison. But at what point would Afghani's be able to be independent? The Taliban didn't have CIA analysts in the room with them (though they most certainly had KGB 
) as they planned their next move, the Afghani's did.
This looks bad, but the more I think on it, the more I ask "when would the Afghani's be ready?" If the answer to that is in a few months, then maybe Biden's decision to leave now is a colossal blunder. But if we don't know or the answer would be years, we have to ask if we want to commit more lives and resources for a hypothetical scenario where the Afghani's can defend themselves. Based on their quick surrender and complete lack of a military response, I don't know if that time would ever come. Biden is responsible, but we need to be objective when evaluating what other options were on the table.
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
They can suck as soldiers, they could very well have fallen on their own, but when you've taken away the very things you trained them to fight with, you can't put their defeat solely on them, which is what they're doing.
Messages out of Afghanistan:
"Over the past hour, several Afghan female friends in Kabul told me the Taliban are in their neighbourhoods, going house to house, looking for women in govt and media, making lists. One sent me a photo from her living room showing armed Talibs outside. "I love you," she wrote. "
"GA Insurance Commissioner John King, who served in Afghanistan, says he's getting WhatsApp messages from his Afghan counterparts who know they're dead but are trying to save their daughters from the Taliban."
"Terrorists are going door to door and killing pilots and SOFs, raping their families, and taking their houses. Two of my friends were shot dead. In Kabul."
Biden should resign.
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
He actually blamed Trump. These are progressive Twitter talking points.
This is a lie, the option was not going back to a 20 year war, this is about his failure to create an exit plan.
No...it's not...Afghanistan has been a shit show for 20 years. This is how it was always going to end.
This is about ending and endless war and I'm good with it. I just wish there was a better plan for refugees but after 20 years if you still don't care enough to fight for your own country...wtf are we supposed to do?
