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Re: Guns N' Roses & related STUDIO SESSIONS - a definitive collection (?)
James wrote:slashsfro wrote:He has the worst work ethic of any major superstar musician EVER.
The only one who is worse is Sly Stone but he had a legit reason.....he's insane.
He got too comfortable too young with his fortune.
The breakup of the old band clearly did a number on him....and like you pointed out, he didn't have the drive/work ethic to keep it going by himself.
It was too much pressure and the label made it so much worse.
it is one of the biggest colossal fuck ups, could a shoulda woulda twists of fate in music history
I'd like to see the alternate universe where Slash has no desire to do Snakepit and all songs worked on by all parties stay "in house".
This doesn't solve all the problems though....
The big enchilada being the presence of Paul Huge in the mix. This would've had to be dealt with quickly or it creates another scenario where Slash bails.
It was a power play on Axl's part that blew up in his face. You don't bring in another guitarist without getting Slashs seal of approval. Period. I don't give a fuck who it is.
Either bring Gilby back...he's still in their orbit....or pick a neutral replacement.
It's still hard to believe one of the greatest bands in history was essentially destroyed over this.
Slash should've took Keith Richards advice...
YOU NEVER LEAVE!!
The moment he walked out, he had no leverage. The moment he released Snakepit, it was all over but the crying. He hung in for a bit but the line had been crossed.
I'm surprised Duff and Matt hung in as long as they did.
In 94-96, every member except Axl is working on music. Take advantage of this productivity instead of having a tantrum.
I guess in some sort of psychotic defense, they probably made more money letting it play out as it did. I mean, a 5 year tour in stadiums/arenas? Think they would still be doing that if they released Snakepit 1 as a gnr album and Slash never left? Not sure. Distance makes the heart grow fonder…and more nostalgic.
In that same timeframe.....
U2 released Pop
Metallica released Load
A slight misstep would not have been the end.
Regroup and get ready for the next album/tour in 99-00.....
GNR2k
You might even have Izzy back in the fold at that point.
Made more money letting it play out as it did?
They wasted 20 years.
Imagine the amount of potential albums and tours they missed out on 1995-2016.
Possible albums in...
1996
2000
2004
2008
2012
2016
Not counting any potential soundtrack contributions, documentaries, etc.
They could've also become the Gen X version of The Stones 15 years earlier.
The CD saga altered all of their careers.
- metallex78
- Rep: 194
Re: Guns N' Roses & related STUDIO SESSIONS - a definitive collection (?)
Yep, agreed about all of this.
And even though I’m an avid Slash fan, I think Axl speaks truth when he was presented the Snakepit 1 stuff and told “no lyric or melody changes” and to fuck off he did want to.
Snakepit could’ve no doubt turned into a great new GN’R album. But Axl wanted to work on it, and Slash didn’t.
This is where I think they’re at a standstill again in 2016-2021. They still can’t see eye to eye, and Axl works slower than the rest of them.
I honestly think it should’ve happened in 2006, when Axl still had drive, looked the part, and could still sing fantastically.
The reunion was 10 years too late in 2016, and it was already 10 years too late in 2006.
Re: Guns N' Roses & related STUDIO SESSIONS - a definitive collection (?)
I've come to accept that GnR was a flash in the pan...lightning in a bottle...it was good while it lasted and they have managed to make a living off of their accolades for the past 30 or more years so good on them
There are still flashes of brilliance sure, but it's more like a 30sec snippet here or there and not the hour plus full albums from their youth...also it's debatable to me whether the uyi material has stood the test of time...lots of cringy shit on those 2 disks
Re: Guns N' Roses & related STUDIO SESSIONS - a definitive collection (?)
And even though I’m an avid Slash fan, I think Axl speaks truth when he was presented the Snakepit 1 stuff and told “no lyric or melody changes” and to fuck off he did want to.
Snakepit could’ve no doubt turned into a great new GN’R album. But Axl wanted to work on it, and Slash didn’t.
Maybe....but how much of the tension and "don't fuck with lyrics" isn't really over the album but instead over a single song?
Beggars and Hangers On
It stands out amongst all the rest. It feels personal...and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who this is directed at.
While there's some decent lyrics throughout the album (Good To Be Alive, Lower), there's also some garbage(Be the Ball).
It's unfortunate that they didn't have a relationship like Mick and Keith. Those two could spew venom at one another but they knew you don't crash the train over tension or personal grudges.
..also it's debatable to me whether the uyi material has stood the test of time...lots of cringy shit on those 2 disks
It hasn't. Other than a few songs people like hearing live, those albums exist in the 1991-92 time capsule.
I noticed last decade how the albums were dropping out of greatest albums lists and those 'best of the 90s' TV shows.
It's why I want to hear those early mixes of the albums.
Half the shit on those records should've been B sides. Imagine how many single sales they would've had if there were 2-3 new songs on each single?
Gotta give em credit though....they were ambitious as hell and swung for the fences.
Re: Guns N' Roses & related STUDIO SESSIONS - a definitive collection (?)
I've come to accept that GnR was a flash in the pan...lightning in a bottle...it was good while it lasted and they have managed to make a living off of their accolades for the past 30 or more years so good on them
There are still flashes of brilliance sure, but it's more like a 30sec snippet here or there and not the hour plus full albums from their youth...also it's debatable to me whether the uyi material has stood the test of time...lots of cringy shit on those 2 disks
You are not a flash in the pan if you can still sell as many tickets as they currently do. They are still a force in the industry despite all their efforts to blow it
Re: Guns N' Roses & related STUDIO SESSIONS - a definitive collection (?)
But they are still selling tickets today because of 20 or so songs written and recorded 30-35 years ago ... that's the point I'm trying to make, I really doubt they will write another song that will rival SCOM, WttJ, PC or whatever
- FlashFlood
- Rep: 55
Re: Guns N' Roses & related STUDIO SESSIONS - a definitive collection (?)
FlashFlood wrote:James wrote:The only one who is worse is Sly Stone but he had a legit reason.....he's insane.
He got too comfortable too young with his fortune.
The breakup of the old band clearly did a number on him....and like you pointed out, he didn't have the drive/work ethic to keep it going by himself.
It was too much pressure and the label made it so much worse.
I'd like to see the alternate universe where Slash has no desire to do Snakepit and all songs worked on by all parties stay "in house".
This doesn't solve all the problems though....
The big enchilada being the presence of Paul Huge in the mix. This would've had to be dealt with quickly or it creates another scenario where Slash bails.
It was a power play on Axl's part that blew up in his face. You don't bring in another guitarist without getting Slashs seal of approval. Period. I don't give a fuck who it is.
Either bring Gilby back...he's still in their orbit....or pick a neutral replacement.
It's still hard to believe one of the greatest bands in history was essentially destroyed over this.
Slash should've took Keith Richards advice...
YOU NEVER LEAVE!!
The moment he walked out, he had no leverage. The moment he released Snakepit, it was all over but the crying. He hung in for a bit but the line had been crossed.
I'm surprised Duff and Matt hung in as long as they did.
In 94-96, every member except Axl is working on music. Take advantage of this productivity instead of having a tantrum.
I guess in some sort of psychotic defense, they probably made more money letting it play out as it did. I mean, a 5 year tour in stadiums/arenas? Think they would still be doing that if they released Snakepit 1 as a gnr album and Slash never left? Not sure. Distance makes the heart grow fonder…and more nostalgic.
In that same timeframe.....
U2 released Pop
Metallica released Load
A slight misstep would not have been the end.
Regroup and get ready for the next album/tour in 99-00.....
GNR2k
You might even have Izzy back in the fold at that point.
Made more money letting it play out as it did?
They wasted 20 years.
Imagine the amount of potential albums and tours they missed out on 1995-2016.
Possible albums in...
1996
2000
2004
2008
2012
2016
Not counting any potential soundtrack contributions, documentaries, etc.
They could've also become the Gen X version of The Stones 15 years earlier.
The CD saga altered all of their careers.
People would have held Axl’s voice against them in the 90s…the shrieking was done. And if he’s doing it over Beggars and Hangers On, it was never gonna fly.
I kinda get the Metallica thing but they had a built in metal cult. U2 was different because they’ve always been alt and rode an alt wave.
Re: Guns N' Roses & related STUDIO SESSIONS - a definitive collection (?)
Imagine the amount of potential albums and tours they missed out on 1995-2016.
Possible albums in...
1996
2000
2004
2008
2012
2016
Not counting any potential soundtrack contributions, documentaries, etc.
They could've also become the Gen X version of The Stones 15 years earlier.
The CD saga altered all of their careers.
That would have solved a lot of problems. For starters, they don't have money issues. Axl had money issues in the mid or late 2000s. And the entire shit about the name would not have come up. And at least for Axl there is no pressure on releasing CD, maybe at some point it gets released as a GNR album (without the needless and massive tinkering) OR it just gets released as an Axl Rose solo record.
It hasn't. Other than a few songs people like hearing live, those albums exist in the 1991-92 time capsule.
I noticed last decade how the albums were dropping out of greatest albums lists and those 'best of the 90s' TV shows.
It's why I want to hear those early mixes of the albums.
Half the shit on those records should've been B sides. Imagine how many single sales they would've had if there were 2-3 new songs on each single?
Gotta give em credit though....they were ambitious as hell and swung for the fences.
I'm going to defend this a little since I've been listening to them a bit lately. While there's too much stuff on those albums, the really great tracks are really worth multiple listens and are more interesting than some of the AFD tracks which I haven't heard in years. I don't think there's enough hit singles in those albums to be honest, probably not enough hit rockers.
Re: Guns N' Roses & related STUDIO SESSIONS - a definitive collection (?)
I'm going to defend this a little since I've been listening to them a bit lately. While there's too much stuff on those albums, the really great tracks are really worth multiple listens and are more interesting than some of the AFD tracks which I haven't heard in years. I don't think there's enough hit singles in those albums to be honest, probably not enough hit rockers.
It was too ambitious. Two albums at once was unprecedented. The fact that they were so huge and millions were waiting probably the only reason the label allowed it to happen.
Just because they could doesn't mean they should....
Like everyone else....I loved it. The excitement getting to hear those albums was off the charts.
Hindsight gives you a different perspective.
I don't think there's enough hit singles in those albums to be honest, probably not enough hit rockers
There's not.
It's two albums of epics and deep cuts. The only thing approaching a Jungle type rocker is YCBM.
Don't Cry
November Rain
The Garden
Coma
Breakdown
Locomotive
Estranged
Those tracks were hyped to the moon for two solid years. You have to include them.
That's about 55 minutes.
Include YCBM as the single to kick things off... we're now over 60 minutes.
We're running out of room.
Obvious tracks to leave off...save for B sides or junk em....
My World
Don't Cry alt
Shotgun Blues
Get in the Ring
You Ain't the First
Civil War and KOHD never should've been on the albums. No one cared about that version of KOHD anymore and only use Civil War as the B side of YCBM.
Only one Izzy song is necessary. Pick one. I think Dust N Bones is the best one and even had single potential if he hadn't bailed.
Now we're at 65 minutes.
Double Talking Jive immediately became a permanent part of the set list. It should've been rerecorded with Axl on vocals.
69 minutes.
Just barely enough room to squeeze in two more songs....one which also become a permanent fixture in the set list and the other was a moderate hit and might have been bigger had it been released earlier in the cycle.....
Live and Let Die
Yesterdays
The disc is now full.
Yes...there's other good songs but they're not really necessary and can either be used as B sides or save them for a future album.
Alternate universe UYI...
You Could Be Mine
Don't Cry
November Rain
The Garden
Coma
Breakdown
Locomotive
Estranged
Dust N Bones
Double Talking Jive
Live and Let Die
Yesterdays
