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Re: The Wrestling thread
Just watched a good wrestling bios video about the Flair vs Sting at Clash of Champions. So good. I had no idea Vince worked so hard to bury the NWA, even with how awful Jim Crockett was at so many aspects of running the NWA, and was going under anyway.
I totally forgot this first Clash went up against WM IV. I had to choose and chose wrestlemania, and watched the highlights of Clash later on. Watching these videos, along with all the matches I missed, have given me a totally new appreciation for Sting.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Just watched a good wrestling bios video about the Flair vs Sting at Clash of Champions. So good. I had no idea Vince worked so hard to bury the NWA, even with how awful Jim Crockett was at so many aspects of running the NWA, and was going under anyway.
I totally forgot this first Clash went up against WM IV. I had to choose and chose wrestlemania, and watched the highlights of Clash later on. Watching these videos, along with all the matches I missed, have given me a totally new appreciation for Sting.
I hated their intense competition in the early phase of PPV. They would try to knock out the other.
It ruined Starrcade 87 for most of the country. Only a handful of areas offered it....and McMahon ran the first Survivor Series on TV for free while Starrcade happened.
It almost killed NWA.
For WrestleMania 4 I watched Clash at home and watched WM at a friend's house.
For WrestleMania 5, I ordered it but waited to watch it on the replay and I watched Clash live. I told friends and some cousins not to call me with any spoilers.
My mom thought I was crazy for saving the paid show for a replay three hours later. She was right....what if the purchase hadn't went through properly? I would've been screwed.
I'll always regret not having two cousins of mine come over for it. They were dirt poor....my aunt a drug addict on welfare...and never got to order any of the shows.
I don't know why I didn't have them come over. It might have had something to do with how our apartment turned into a madhouse during WM3....or we might have been arguing at the time.
Flair vs Sting at Clash of Champions
Great match...felt like the start of a new era...which it was.
Only thing I hated about it is how they made a huge production out of the judges at ringside. Even as a kid I knew that it was going to be a draw.
, have given me a totally new appreciation for Sting.
I soured on him quickly and quit watching late 89 but he was red hot right out of the gate when arriving. Crockett and Dusty were imbeciles for not pulling the trigger on him immediately in 87 once the deal happened with UWF where they would swap talent about a year before Crockett bought out UWF.
He oozed charisma and all he got out of it the first year was being placed in a six man tag in the opening match at Starrcade 87.
It's what made McMahon superior to Crockett in every way. McMahon had gut instinct and knew when someone deserved a massive push....or when someone needs to drop down the card.
Had McMahon run NWA in 87, Sting would not have been jerking the curtain at Starrcade. He would have been thrown into a quick program with Luger in October to set up a US title match at Starrcade.
Since Dusty had to hog the glory and Crockett always refused to say no to Dusty, he got the program with Luger.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Before going to bed I had to watch this....
Just unbelievable. Wrestling will never be like this again. That crowd pop...
My favorite thing about this match is how Undertaker stays in character even though he knows Foley is in trouble. Fans would've gave him a free pass for doing it but he plays it cool.
Had this happened in any other era, both men would've been fired for this match. The level of risk taken not once but several times is simply too high.
Foley needs to be in the hospital after the first fall.
Re: The Wrestling thread
That's the role/infleunce of ECW there. Just the brawling/garbage style of wrestling there (I'm not saying this as a negative either). Even Austin (forced by injury of course) modified his style. He used to incorporate a lot more wrestling holds/maneuvers before transitioning to the kick stomp stunner template his matches had.
That's not even the best Mankind-Undertaker brawl style match. The 1996 Summerslam one was far better. This one just had the iconic moment.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Yeah that whole 'backyard wrestling' thing going on back then hasn't really aged well. They went overboard with it. Hell ...I remember an ECW match where they stacked like 3 tables on top of one another in the ring just so they could drop someone through them. Of course the opponent just stands there like a dummy.
I just like the Mankind-Undertaker match above for its uniqueness. Nobody but Foley and Undertaker know what's going to happen, they have to veer off their script almost immediately, Ross and Lawler's amazing calling of the match, and how Undertaker never breaks character even in the midst of disaster.
We'll never see a match like it again. For better or worse, it's up there on the list of iconic matches.
Re: The Wrestling thread
I still can't hardly believe that no NWA wrestlers ever made the rounds to Carson, Letterman, Arsenio, etc.
I was reading more of the Observer newsletters. It's late 89.
Arsenio Hall wanted NWA/WCW to send some of their wrestlers to his show.
They ignored the request.
He then personally called them...asked for The Freebirds, Lex Luger, Flair and Missy Hyatt, among others....and NWA/WCW refused.
Their reasoning?
He let WWF wrestlers appear on his show.
The incompetence is unbelievable. You would think they would have learned from Crockett's failures...but no...same as it ever was.
Yes WWF stars appeared on all the morning and late night shows...and it's a big reason why the WWF was such a huge aspect of pop culture in the 80s and 90s.
So they decide to punish their own company and wrestlers because McMahon was successful at it.
While he appeared on it several times, this is my favorite Savage appearance on Arsenio...
Imagine how someone like Flair would have thrived on this show. It practically begs for a Flair appearance. Imagine Flair flirting with someone like Morgan Fairchild and talking about "space mountain". 
Re: The Wrestling thread
James wrote:I still can't hardly believe that no NWA wrestlers ever made the rounds to Carson, Letterman, Arsenio, etc.
I was reading more of the Observer newsletters. It's late 89.
Arsenio Hall wanted NWA/WCW to send some of their wrestlers to his show.
They ignored the request.
He then personally called them...asked for The Freebirds, Lex Luger, Flair and Missy Hyatt, among others....and NWA/WCW refused.
Their reasoning?
He let WWF wrestlers appear on his show.
The incompetence is unbelievable. You would think they would have learned from Crockett's failures...but no...same as it ever was.
Yes WWF stars appeared on all the morning and late night shows...and it's a big reason why the WWF was such a huge aspect of pop culture in the 80s and 90s.
So they decide to punish their own company and wrestlers because McMahon was successful at it.
I was thinking about this when you mentioned that Sting match the other day. Sting should have been a bigger star and had some cross cultural appeal if NWA/WCW bothered promoting their company like WWF did. I mean if roided out guy like Warrior could achieve that type of appeal there's no reason Sting shouldn't have done the same. Maybe not to the Hogan level but still he would have been a lot more well known.
This is why they were always kind of behind the WWF. I think the wrestling for WCW/NWA may have been better but the WWF killed them in promoting their own product.
I do think Bischoff tried to remedy this a bit when the NWO phenomena hit (some of it was for ratings though) by booking celebs to raise the profile of WCW but it was too late as the WWF had established their hold on that since the 1980s.
Re: The Wrestling thread
I watched a Magnum TA vs Koloff match last night, and the pop TA got was absolutely bonkers. I'm not saying he could've been as big as Hogan, but I think he could've been much bigger than Flair. They had a real star on their hands. Such a damn shame.
Re: The Wrestling thread
James wrote:James wrote:I still can't hardly believe that no NWA wrestlers ever made the rounds to Carson, Letterman, Arsenio, etc.
I was reading more of the Observer newsletters. It's late 89.
Arsenio Hall wanted NWA/WCW to send some of their wrestlers to his show.
They ignored the request.
He then personally called them...asked for The Freebirds, Lex Luger, Flair and Missy Hyatt, among others....and NWA/WCW refused.
Their reasoning?
He let WWF wrestlers appear on his show.
The incompetence is unbelievable. You would think they would have learned from Crockett's failures...but no...same as it ever was.
Yes WWF stars appeared on all the morning and late night shows...and it's a big reason why the WWF was such a huge aspect of pop culture in the 80s and 90s.
So they decide to punish their own company and wrestlers because McMahon was successful at it.
I was thinking about this when you mentioned that Sting match the other day. Sting should have been a bigger star and had some cross cultural appeal if NWA/WCW bothered promoting their company like WWF did. I mean if roided out guy like Warrior could achieve that type of appeal there's no reason Sting shouldn't have done the same. Maybe not to the Hogan level but still he would have been a lot more well known.
This is why they were always kind of behind the WWF. I think the wrestling for WCW/NWA may have been better but the WWF killed them in promoting their own product.
I do think Bischoff tried to remedy this a bit when the NWO phenomena hit (some of it was for ratings though) by booking celebs to raise the profile of WCW but it was too late as the WWF had established their hold on that since the 1980s.
They couldn't even do that right.
RoboCop at the Clash....yikes.
That Wonder Years kid announcing... comical.
At that point it seemed so amateurish compared to the level of celebrities WWF would bring in.
The later years....
Dennis Rodman in the NWO. Karl Malone kicking NWO ass.
Jay Leno. Hogan was selling for JAY LENO.
The KISS demon and that rapper. Awful.
The cherry on top is David Arquette as world champ.
Another reason they couldn't properly gain any traction in pop culture was the lack of merch. House shows was the only place to get any and it was just generic shirts. In the late 90s they improved in this department but like you said, it was too late by then.
It's also inexcusable that in the 80s-mid 90s NWA/WCW had no video games on Nintendo/Sega or arcade games. .
You could play WWF on your Nintendo at home, your mom ask you to walk to the store to get milk or bread, buy yourself a WWF ice cream bar and play that killer arcade game with The Megapowers before you walk back home.
As far as Sting being bigger....
I watched a Magnum TA vs Koloff match last night, and the pop TA got was absolutely bonkers. I'm not saying he could've been as big as Hogan, but I think he could've been much bigger than Flair. They had a real star on their hands. Such a damn shame.
Sting and Magnum both had massive potential but for that potential to not be squandered would have required an eventual move to WWF.
Same with Nikita. He was incredible his first couple years. McMahon saw his potential as a monster heel for Hogan and tried to bring him in. He refused of course and his career flamed out pretty quick.
Sting should've bailed out of NWA in 1990-91 when Warrior was a hot commodity. McMahon could've had a huge angle fall into his lap with the history between the two. It could've breathed life into the Warrior era. It got stale real quick.
Re: The Wrestling thread
I had no idea this had happened even though it would've been an obvious feud to have after the Savage face turn.
How can you just bury that on a house show? Is it similar to the Hogan vs Flair house show matches in 91....just testing the Megapowers concept at a house show to gauge crowd reaction?
The only complaint I ever really had about the near flawless Megapowers storyline is the lack of matches for how long the angle played out (year and a half).
I know the main obstacle to it being a genuine team is the fact Hogan had to film No Holds Barred...which is also a big reason for the Savage title reign itself.
Having said that, maybe it can't be improved. Take into consideration that there is a lack of monster heels at this point to feed to Hogan/Savage. It's why the main angle other than the Savage heel turn revolves around Andre/Million Dollar Man.
To do the turn, they use the only big heels they had on the roster....the Twin Towers(Bossman and Akeem).
Then take into account if you push the Megapowers as the top team in the WWF, you have to put the tag team titles on them....which is unacceptable. They would also run out of opponents quickly....most of the tag teams were not heels.
Edit
Im pretty sure this is the only match where Hogan goes up against Honkey tonk Man. This might be another reason they buried this on a house show and killed this feud so quickly even though it led to the Megapowers formation....
Don't want to kill Honkeys heat by having the IC champ get beat by Hogan or Savage on a weekly basis. They were about to have Honkey headline the B show circuit and those need to sell out.
I just talked myself out of improving the angle....
