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Re: The Wrestling thread
I was reading more wrestling Observer newsletters and it's early-mid 89.
It's the point where Windham is no longer wrestling but he's negotiating with WCW. Obviously we know it doesn't happen and he goes to the WWF as the Widowmaker.
His issue is the fact he was supposed to get a run with the NWA world title but once Steamboat came in...and then Funk...it shit canned the idea.
What the hell were they thinking in late 88 to mid 89?
-Luger is promised a run with the belt during his lengthy feud with Flair. Flair balks at the last second... essentially ruining the feud.
- Windham is expecting a run with the title...even though he was just a Horsemen and had a killer run as a heel with the US title. I'm assuming this was when they floated the idea of Flair as a face?
- Sting gets red hot and his Clash match with Flair is legendary. In the near future he will also be promised a run with the belt.
- Here comes Steamboat...who was clearly signed for an instant feud with Flair that will lead to a title change.
- Couple months later they sign Funk.
- Out of the blue, they bring in Muta who blows minds and you have to move him up the ladder somehow.
They were insane trying to juggle this shit. They were also incredibly lucky that Windham was the only one from this group to jump ship to WWF. Luger should've bailed the moment Flair backed away from a title change.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Windham had a great heel run as US champion, and it's a damn shame he left to WWF at that point. Dan Spivey should have got a push in his place.
That would be funny as hell considering the fact that when Windham bailed from WWF in 85, Spivey was used as his replacement in the team with Rotunda.
They didn't know what to do with Spivey....WWF or NWA.
As time goes on, his 88 heel run is my favorite period of his career. The Bigelow feud deserved to be bigger than it was. Flair helped kill Bigelow's run here.
After reading those newsletters I moved up to 89 to watch some Muta footage.
The new venue they picked for the TV shows is awful...much worse in hindsight.
It looks like a high school gym. I know they wanted to move away from the small, dark studio in Atlanta used for years...but come on. This is worse.
Either go all out using arenas or send em back to that studio. I didn't know it at the time but ratings were way down at this point and the presentation here isn't helping things at all.
I'm sure it's been said before but I'll say it again....
Get that damn makeup and green mist away from Muta and just let him show off his skills. This guy could've been like Steamboat. Don't saddle him with a Kabuki gimmick. If you have to give him a gimmick, just put him under a mask and he can be the Tiger Mask of the NWA.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Yeah, but that gimmick was his idea and made him a friggin legend in Japan. His outfits in his later years were even more insane and awesome. They toned down Vaders gimmick/outfit he used in Japan and I think he lost a little something because of it.
Yeah, NWA was literally darker than WWF as they kept the lights really low around the arenas, probably because of attendance, but I always thought it gave the NWA a really edgy look. It always felt like it was wrestling for adults.
Re: The Wrestling thread
It definitely gave them an aura of realism but you gotta take into account that they were attempting to be a legit national company and compete with McMahon.
The high school gym vibe does not scream major promotion.
They just couldn't take it to the next level in that department.
It got even more bizarre when I started watching it again in late 92 early 93 when they're filming their TV shows at Disney World of all places. Yeah it's more big time....but you're filming huge chunks of footage in front of crowds who aren't even fans.
Until the Monday Night Wars of the late 90s, they could never find a nice middle ground between the dark, smoky, gritty southern style and the glitz and sleek production of WWF.
Honestly I'm not sure if the realism of NWA would translate well in a WWF environment.
Remember how awkward it was seeing Tully and Arn in the WWF?
Another thing about 89 NWA I had completely forgotten about until reading the Observer newsletters was how they brought in WWF midcard rejects to fill a few slots.
Isn't this whacky?
And Junkyard Dog.
He's over the hill at this point but I think he might have fit in back in 84-85 had he went here instead of WWF.
I just watched the full match. It's bullshit. It's the only thing I didn't like about Windhams heel turn....they did to him what they did with Flair with the constant cheating and DQs. He also changed his style. Windham was capable of anything... from brawling with the Road Warriors to high flying with Muta.
He's simply too talented to pigeonhole him into one specific style.
Re: The Wrestling thread
I just found out that in 1985 during the Hillbilly craze(Jim, Uncle Elmer, Cousin Junior), McMahon wanted them to have the tag team belts to help get them over and keep the momentum going. Remember, they were getting really popular that year.
At a house show, they beat Valentine and Beefcake for the belts. Valentine threw such a fit over it, McMahon abandoned the idea and the Hillbillies dropped the belts at the next house show.
The title change was never acknowledged officially.
It was the right move. No point wasting those titles on a short term gimmick like the Hillbillies.
Re: The Wrestling thread
I just got through watching Hogan vs Andre at WM3.
Yeah I know.... not a good match. It accomplished what it needed to. It tells the story.
I am in the extreme minority who believe they initially had plans to make this match controversial but backed out of the idea at the last second.
I thought so back then when I saw it...and especially after watching it a bunch of times over the next few weeks or so (we taped the PPV).
When I saw the buildup to WM4... specifically The Main Event with the evil twin ref and the fast count....it cemented it.
In the opening minute of this match, Hogan tried to slam him but it doesn't work. There's a count....Andre thinks he won and Ventura goes....."Was that 2 or was that 3?"
It's never brought up again.
Later in the match during Andre's bear hug and Hogan is on the verge of passing out, the ref lifts his arm three times. Jesse acknowledged this during the second drop but Monsoon says it was only one.
Bullshit.
I think this incident was an honest mistake and Hogan and the ref just fucked up the count. However, taking into account the previous count after the attempted slam, it makes you wonder.
The only thing going against this theory....other than the 99.9% of fans who disagree...is the fact it has never been brought up by those involved in the past 30+ years.
Edit
Forgot to mention how there conveniently isn't a good camera angle of the 2-3 count. That could've helped propel the alternate storyline.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Watched AEW and can someone explain what the appeal of Darby Allin is? Is he popular? He looks like an emo kid in high school who's main move is slapping people. JR was desperate to put this guy over. They've paired him with Sting and it makes him look even worse standing next to a wrestler with a physique, and not a junior high vegan who never did a push up.
They also have a flamboyant gay wrestler who is really feminine, and it's kind of funny, but I swear the dude is sexually harassing the other wrestlers. He was very handsy with his tag partner, to the point the guy had to push him off him to get out of the ring. This didn't look kayfabe.
