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Re: The Wrestling thread
My daughter and i have been watching wrestling docs...
We have seen beyond the mat and both seasons of dark side of the ring...what should we watch next?
Was Dark Side of the Ring a good series overall? I remember catching the Killing of Bruiser Brody and The Montreal Screw Job episodes and found them quite interesting and well done. Just wondering if the rest were as interesting.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Axl S wrote:We know the difference between a booker and a writer mitch. A booker still writes a storyline outline and plans out where they want the story to go. They then give the wrestlers notes on things they need to mention when they do any promos and any angles that need to be incorporated into their matches. They also as James mentioned sometimes need to drop angles or change course due to outside circumstances.
That’s not entirely true...pat Patterson is my evidence of this...
He never told people exactly what to do...but he provided key points and allowed the performers to fill in the holes.
Pat was one of several guys involved in booking and writing, though. Bruce Prichard was pretty important, as was Jim Cornette at one time. Like Vince Russo showed, most of these guys left on their own to do what they want doesn't work. Vince had a group of guys who knew wrestling back in the day and could work some magic together. At the end of the day, its up to Vince what goes on tv and I've heard he's ripped up scripts on a Monday and rewrite RAW himself just a few hours before going on the air.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Neemo wrote:My daughter and i have been watching wrestling docs...
We have seen beyond the mat and both seasons of dark side of the ring...what should we watch next?
Was Dark Side of the Ring a good series overall? I remember catching the Killing of Bruiser Brody and The Montreal Screw Job episodes and found them quite interesting and well done. Just wondering if the rest were as interesting.
Yes, James didn't like it, there's only so much you can fit in an hour, but it's top notch.
Re: The Wrestling thread
On the booking vs writing debate, I've always felt that the booker also had some responsibilites on how the match went (ie the payoff). The writer's responsibility was more or less write an engaging enough story where the fans want to see these guys fight/wrestle. Sometimes booking and writing overlapped I guess. They both need to be strong to create a satisfying feud though.
Guess one of the most famous ones where the match totally sucked and was overbooked would be Starcade 97. It should have been an easy book/matchup with Sting destroying Hogan and the Nwo. Instead, you got some convoluted match that ended up involving Bret Hart and some clusterfuck finish. Totally screwed up what should have been an easy story/angle to finish and wasted the build of it.
Re: The Wrestling thread
mitchejw wrote:Axl S wrote:We know the difference between a booker and a writer mitch. A booker still writes a storyline outline and plans out where they want the story to go. They then give the wrestlers notes on things they need to mention when they do any promos and any angles that need to be incorporated into their matches. They also as James mentioned sometimes need to drop angles or change course due to outside circumstances.
That’s not entirely true...pat Patterson is my evidence of this...
He never told people exactly what to do...but he provided key points and allowed the performers to fill in the holes.
Pat was one of several guys involved in booking and writing, though. Bruce Prichard was pretty important, as was Jim Cornette at one time. Like Vince Russo showed, most of these guys left on their own to do what they want doesn't work. Vince had a group of guys who knew wrestling back in the day and could work some magic together. At the end of the day, its up to Vince what goes on tv and I've heard he's ripped up scripts on a Monday and rewrite RAW himself just a few hours before going on the air.
Pat never called himself a writer. I know we're splitting hairs here but I think it matters.
When you say 'worked' what do you mean? Jim Cornette set up Ohio Valley Wrestling and other wrestling organizations that were meant to train future WWE stars. Bruce Prichard made some pretty amazing contributions to creative and development himself.
How is what Vince is doing now working? What kind of boss hires people and wastes money on them if you're just going to do it all yourself anyway? Why is he tearing up scripts and show formats hours before or even during a show?
That doesn't sound like leadership to me. If your gonna be in control, be in control...but to be rewriting shows during the show sounds like an ego thing to me.
The Vince of today and the Vince of 20 years ago are two completely different dudes. He doesn't have 'it' anymore.
Re: The Wrestling thread
On the booking vs writing debate, I've always felt that the booker also had some responsibilites on how the match went (ie the payoff). The writer's responsibility was more or less write an engaging enough story where the fans want to see these guys fight/wrestle. Sometimes booking and writing overlapped I guess. They both need to be strong to create a satisfying feud though.
Guess one of the most famous ones where the match totally sucked and was overbooked would be Starcade 97. It should have been an easy book/matchup with Sting destroying Hogan and the Nwo. Instead, you got some convoluted match that ended up involving Bret Hart and some clusterfuck finish. Totally screwed up what should have been an easy story/angle to finish and wasted the build of it.
That was all Hogan. I just watched a thing on YouTube about it, and Hogan totally screwed that match up. It was supposed to be a fast count by an NWO ref but Hogan told him right before the match to count normal to give him a clean win, so the ending made no sense.
Re: The Wrestling thread
misterID wrote:mitchejw wrote:That’s not entirely true...pat Patterson is my evidence of this...
He never told people exactly what to do...but he provided key points and allowed the performers to fill in the holes.
Pat was one of several guys involved in booking and writing, though. Bruce Prichard was pretty important, as was Jim Cornette at one time. Like Vince Russo showed, most of these guys left on their own to do what they want doesn't work. Vince had a group of guys who knew wrestling back in the day and could work some magic together. At the end of the day, its up to Vince what goes on tv and I've heard he's ripped up scripts on a Monday and rewrite RAW himself just a few hours before going on the air.
Pat never called himself a writer. I know we're splitting hairs here but I think it matters.
When you say 'worked' what do you mean? Jim Cornette set up Ohio Valley Wrestling and other wrestling organizations that were meant to train future WWE stars. Bruce Prichard made some pretty amazing contributions to creative and development himself.
How is what Vince is doing now working? What kind of boss hires people and wastes money on them if you're just going to do it all yourself anyway? Why is he tearing up scripts and show formats hours before or even during a show?
That doesn't sound like leadership to me. If your gonna be in control, be in control...but to be rewriting shows during the show sounds like an ego thing to me.
The Vince of today and the Vince of 20 years ago are two completely different dudes. He doesn't have 'it' anymore.
I said earlier they didn't call themselves writers. They worked as creative or backstage producers or just bookers. Nash singled Patterson out as coming up with long term plans for storylines for him.
Re: The Wrestling thread
mitchejw wrote:misterID wrote:Pat was one of several guys involved in booking and writing, though. Bruce Prichard was pretty important, as was Jim Cornette at one time. Like Vince Russo showed, most of these guys left on their own to do what they want doesn't work. Vince had a group of guys who knew wrestling back in the day and could work some magic together. At the end of the day, its up to Vince what goes on tv and I've heard he's ripped up scripts on a Monday and rewrite RAW himself just a few hours before going on the air.
Pat never called himself a writer. I know we're splitting hairs here but I think it matters.
When you say 'worked' what do you mean? Jim Cornette set up Ohio Valley Wrestling and other wrestling organizations that were meant to train future WWE stars. Bruce Prichard made some pretty amazing contributions to creative and development himself.
How is what Vince is doing now working? What kind of boss hires people and wastes money on them if you're just going to do it all yourself anyway? Why is he tearing up scripts and show formats hours before or even during a show?
That doesn't sound like leadership to me. If your gonna be in control, be in control...but to be rewriting shows during the show sounds like an ego thing to me.
The Vince of today and the Vince of 20 years ago are two completely different dudes. He doesn't have 'it' anymore.
I said earlier they didn't call themselves writers. They worked as creative or backstage producers or just bookers. Nash singled Patterson out as coming up with long term plans for storylines for him.
Like I said...I don't mean to split hairs here and after this post I won't beat a dead horse...
the level of micro management that goes on now is ridiculous. That's my only point.
