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Re: The Wrestling thread
I disagree with some of the takes in this thread recently. Writers are a part of the problem they are not the solution. I strongly believe that a key element of the 80s boom was that the wrestlers work this out for themselves. They did not need to be told what to say or what to do.
Writers that come from the entertainment industry have no idea what wrestling is about and it’s obvious that they don’t take it that seriously by what they write and what they ask people to do. They don’t play the individual strengths and they don’t create characters that are genuine to the person playing those characters. At the end of the day you have a bunch of wrestlers trying to play characters but they’re not very good at playing.
Disagree here, there were writers in the 80s, they just didn't call themselves that. They had storylines planned out for a year, and it was rare that a wrestler had any input in it unless you were a headliner. Wrestling just doesn't have guys like Randy Savage or Jake Roberts who could pitch a good idea and excute it. WWE is also trying to build wrestlers in-house instead of going after Indy guys. I think wrestlers need to do some form of an indy circuit to learn. WCW used to put guys under contract in Indy circuits, and so would WWF along time ago.
Where I agree is that it's become a tv show with failed screenwriters and writers from reality shows who don't know anything about wrestling. It's just as big of a problem for Cody Rhodes to be running creative as it is Vince.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Where I agree is that it's become a tv show with failed screenwriters and writers from reality shows who don't know anything about wrestling. It's just as big of a problem for Cody Rhodes to be running creative as it is Vince.
Yup. Basically this.
My big issue with AEW is it all feels for lack of a better word "memey". It feels like pretend wrestling. Obviously we all know wrestling is pretend but it feels like a bunch of guys playing at running a promotion rather than running one.
Re: The Wrestling thread
mitchejw wrote:I disagree with some of the takes in this thread recently. Writers are a part of the problem they are not the solution. I strongly believe that a key element of the 80s boom was that the wrestlers work this out for themselves. They did not need to be told what to say or what to do.
Writers that come from the entertainment industry have no idea what wrestling is about and it’s obvious that they don’t take it that seriously by what they write and what they ask people to do. They don’t play the individual strengths and they don’t create characters that are genuine to the person playing those characters. At the end of the day you have a bunch of wrestlers trying to play characters but they’re not very good at playing.
Disagree here, there were writers in the 80s, they just didn't call themselves that. They had storylines planned out for a year, and it was rare that a wrestler had any input in it unless you were a headliner. Wrestling just doesn't have guys like Randy Savage or Jake Roberts who could pitch a good idea and excute it. WWE is also trying to build wrestlers in-house instead of going after Indy guys. I think wrestlers need to do some form of an indy circuit to learn. WCW used to put guys under contract in Indy circuits, and so would WWF along time ago.
Where I agree is that it's become a tv show with failed screenwriters and writers from reality shows who don't know anything about wrestling. It's just as big of a problem for Cody Rhodes to be running creative as it is Vince.
Bookers and writers aren’t the same. Bookers provide an outline. Not detailed scripts.
I’m basing what i know from various shout interviews with guys like roddy piper and other that transitioned from the 70s into the 80s boom.
It’s not that every idea was genius...but i think authenticity and genuine ideas go a lot farther than somebody who hates wrestling.
Btw Vince hates that word...wrestling.
Isn’t it ironic that someone who hates wrestling owns it?
Re: The Wrestling thread
mitchejw wrote:I disagree with some of the takes in this thread recently. Writers are a part of the problem they are not the solution. I strongly believe that a key element of the 80s boom was that the wrestlers work this out for themselves. They did not need to be told what to say or what to do.
Writers that come from the entertainment industry have no idea what wrestling is about and it’s obvious that they don’t take it that seriously by what they write and what they ask people to do. They don’t play the individual strengths and they don’t create characters that are genuine to the person playing those characters. At the end of the day you have a bunch of wrestlers trying to play characters but they’re not very good at playing.
Disagree here, there were writers in the 80s, they just didn't call themselves that. They had storylines planned out for a year, and it was rare that a wrestler had any input in it unless you were a headliner. Wrestling just doesn't have guys like Randy Savage or Jake Roberts who could pitch a good idea and excute it. .
The wrestlers took it seriously back then. Only reason the world got that incredible Savage-Steamboat match at Wrestlemania III is because Savage made Steamboat come to his house to choreograph and rehearse it.
Created angles were essentially guidelines. They could quickly veer into a different direction if needed, extend it, hot shot it, or quickly end it if something isn't working.
A great example of ending an angle before it even starts is King Kong Bundy and Kamala in WWF. After a Bundy match and before Kamala's match, they'd pass each other down the aisle doing a stare down. After a couple weeks of this, they dropped it and didn't mention it again.
I guess they remembered that they don't like doing heel vs heel matches.... especially when one of them doesn't even talk.
Great example of hot shot booking is Magnum TA's car wreck. That accident fucked everything up. Turn Nikita face and put him in Magnum's spot with Dusty and refresh the feud with the Horsemen.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Btw Vince hates that word...wrestling.
Isn’t it ironic that someone who hates wrestling owns it?
He should've stopped hating it once he broke it through to the mainstream in 84-85. No reason to hate it at that point. People from all walks of life had finally embraced it.
Re: The Wrestling thread
misterID wrote:mitchejw wrote:I disagree with some of the takes in this thread recently. Writers are a part of the problem they are not the solution. I strongly believe that a key element of the 80s boom was that the wrestlers work this out for themselves. They did not need to be told what to say or what to do.
Writers that come from the entertainment industry have no idea what wrestling is about and it’s obvious that they don’t take it that seriously by what they write and what they ask people to do. They don’t play the individual strengths and they don’t create characters that are genuine to the person playing those characters. At the end of the day you have a bunch of wrestlers trying to play characters but they’re not very good at playing.
Disagree here, there were writers in the 80s, they just didn't call themselves that. They had storylines planned out for a year, and it was rare that a wrestler had any input in it unless you were a headliner. Wrestling just doesn't have guys like Randy Savage or Jake Roberts who could pitch a good idea and excute it. WWE is also trying to build wrestlers in-house instead of going after Indy guys. I think wrestlers need to do some form of an indy circuit to learn. WCW used to put guys under contract in Indy circuits, and so would WWF along time ago.
Where I agree is that it's become a tv show with failed screenwriters and writers from reality shows who don't know anything about wrestling. It's just as big of a problem for Cody Rhodes to be running creative as it is Vince.
Bookers and writers aren’t the same. Bookers provide an outline. Not detailed scripts.
I’m basing what i know from various shout interviews with guys like roddy piper and other that transitioned from the 70s into the 80s boom.
It’s not that every idea was genius...but i think authenticity and genuine ideas go a lot farther than somebody who hates wrestling.
Btw Vince hates that word...wrestling.
Isn’t it ironic that someone who hates wrestling owns it?
But those promos were heavily edited and managed. You could tell Ric Flair to go cut a promo and what you wanted from it and he'd rip it up. Not everyone can do that. A lot of guys still come up with their own stuff... And it shows 
I'm talking more along storylines. That's what AEW is missing.
Re: The Wrestling thread
We know the difference between a booker and a writer mitch. A booker still writes a storyline outline and plans out where they want the story to go. They then give the wrestlers notes on things they need to mention when they do any promos and any angles that need to be incorporated into their matches. They also as James mentioned sometimes need to drop angles or change course due to outside circumstances.
Re: The Wrestling thread
mitchejw wrote:misterID wrote:Disagree here, there were writers in the 80s, they just didn't call themselves that. They had storylines planned out for a year, and it was rare that a wrestler had any input in it unless you were a headliner. Wrestling just doesn't have guys like Randy Savage or Jake Roberts who could pitch a good idea and excute it. WWE is also trying to build wrestlers in-house instead of going after Indy guys. I think wrestlers need to do some form of an indy circuit to learn. WCW used to put guys under contract in Indy circuits, and so would WWF along time ago.
Where I agree is that it's become a tv show with failed screenwriters and writers from reality shows who don't know anything about wrestling. It's just as big of a problem for Cody Rhodes to be running creative as it is Vince.
Bookers and writers aren’t the same. Bookers provide an outline. Not detailed scripts.
I’m basing what i know from various shout interviews with guys like roddy piper and other that transitioned from the 70s into the 80s boom.
It’s not that every idea was genius...but i think authenticity and genuine ideas go a lot farther than somebody who hates wrestling.
Btw Vince hates that word...wrestling.
Isn’t it ironic that someone who hates wrestling owns it?
But those promos were heavily edited and managed. You could tell Ric Flair to go cut a promo and what you wanted from it and he'd rip it up. Not everyone can do that. A lot of guys still come up with their own stuff... And it shows
I'm talking more along storylines. That's what AEW is missing.
I dunno...then you’re not hiring the right people.
There’s more to being a wrestler than muscles and body slams.
If you can’t talk and you don’t have the basic skills to perform a wrestling match...then why the fuck were you hired?
I am cynical but wrestler now are just athletic models. You could skip everything after the walk down the aisle and no one would care.
Re: The Wrestling thread
We know the difference between a booker and a writer mitch. A booker still writes a storyline outline and plans out where they want the story to go. They then give the wrestlers notes on things they need to mention when they do any promos and any angles that need to be incorporated into their matches. They also as James mentioned sometimes need to drop angles or change course due to outside circumstances.
That’s not entirely true...pat Patterson is my evidence of this...
He never told people exactly what to do...but he provided key points and allowed the performers to fill in the holes.
