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Re: Current Events Thread
James wrote:I cannot disagree stronger. The riots over the summer caused more death and destruction, and it's not even close.
BLM- Antifa riots that led to burned down businesses, however many deaths(don't remember the exact number), and random chaos in major cities
A failed coup attempt/decapitation strike aimed at the vice president, house, and senate which if successful, would've plunged this country into a dictatorship. The head of this insidious, moronic snake is still in power for 9 days.
Both are bad.... obviously. If you don't know the difference in magnitude between rioting in various cities in the name of social justice and an attempt to plunge this country into a dictatorship while setting fire to the constitution and can't comprehend why the latter is worse than the former, I really don't know what to tell you.
Do I start drawing pictures to point out the difference?
It was the worst, most bungled "coup" ever.
That's Trumpism. Idiocy top to bottom. He fired anyone competent over the years which lowered his chances of success.
He does not get a free pass for failing to destroy this country.
, no one will ever abuse censorship. Of course not. It will not be abused. Absolutely not.
No one has ever said this. Not a single person.
Politicians will be completely responsible
No one has ever said this. Not a single person.
You're damn right I'll be fair towards Biden, and I'll hold him to the same scrutiny I do Trump.
I've seen very little scrutiny. Your scrutiny is revolving around Antifa, BLM, and censorship.
And if you think the media is okay now, or has improved, I'll stop right now
If you think I believe the media is ok, you don't read my posts.
The only improvement....and yes it is an improvement...is the lack of outrage articles and news segments regarding Trump's latest garbage tweet. Pretty sure you've complained in the past how they covered this but now you've got a problem with the lack of it. Literally the only change is they've shut him down because he tried plunging us into a dictatorship.
Oh fucking bullshit. I'm not going to listen to this absolute horse shit that I haven't held Trump to any scrutiny, I've lost friends over it, so fucking save it. I SAID HE NEEDED TO BE IMPEACHED. This is the typical lazy ass fallback fucking answer. There's a flipside to that asslicking coin. Political violence was legitimized by the media and those who justified it or stayed silent about it for the past year. I said on this forum violence would eventually be used by the right, the people you DON'T agree with, because it was normalized, and unfortunately, it did.
Draw this: When you make ANY case for censorship, then who makes those decisions? These are the questions I've asked. So GODDAMN, FUCKING RIGHT no one said it BECAUSE you guys wont answer the points monkey and I've brought up about the consequeces. Just more bullshit hyperbole about ridiculous coups. Yadayadayada.
Death is a death is a death. They matter.
And I sure as shit am not going to let you guys put words in my mouth to continue this circle jerk argument.
YOU SAID THE MEDIA HAVE GOTTEN BETTER SINCE HIS TWITTER WAS DELETED. All they've done is talk about Trump. All they will do is continue to talk about Trump. It hasn't stopped.
Have fun agreeing with each other. I'm out.
god damn...
ya know...there's only a few of you that believe this rises to the level of censorship. Are you saying he needed to be impeached a year ago or now?
Anyway...Trump's whole schtick is divisive rhetoric. And he gets a little more extreme with it everyday. The discussion about censorship is a discussion for another time.
Re: Current Events Thread
Credible threats have been made against Biden, Harris, Pelosi in addition to this ...
The FBI has received information indicating "armed protests" are being planned at all 50 state capitols and the US Capitol in the days leading up to President-elect Joe Biden's inauguration on January 20, according to an internal bulletin obtained by CNN https://t.co/Ow6Bm6gGtR
— CNN (@CNN) January 11, 2021
Welcome to our new America.
Re: Current Events Thread
James wrote:I cannot disagree stronger. The riots over the summer caused more death and destruction, and it's not even close.
BLM- Antifa riots that led to burned down businesses, however many deaths(don't remember the exact number), and random chaos in major cities
A failed coup attempt/decapitation strike aimed at the vice president, house, and senate which if successful, would've plunged this country into a dictatorship. The head of this insidious, moronic snake is still in power for 9 days.
Both are bad.... obviously. If you don't know the difference in magnitude between rioting in various cities in the name of social justice and an attempt to plunge this country into a dictatorship while setting fire to the constitution and can't comprehend why the latter is worse than the former, I really don't know what to tell you.
Do I start drawing pictures to point out the difference?
It was the worst, most bungled "coup" ever.
That's Trumpism. Idiocy top to bottom. He fired anyone competent over the years which lowered his chances of success.
He does not get a free pass for failing to destroy this country.
, no one will ever abuse censorship. Of course not. It will not be abused. Absolutely not.
No one has ever said this. Not a single person.
Politicians will be completely responsible
No one has ever said this. Not a single person.
You're damn right I'll be fair towards Biden, and I'll hold him to the same scrutiny I do Trump.
I've seen very little scrutiny. Your scrutiny is revolving around Antifa, BLM, and censorship.
And if you think the media is okay now, or has improved, I'll stop right now
If you think I believe the media is ok, you don't read my posts.
The only improvement....and yes it is an improvement...is the lack of outrage articles and news segments regarding Trump's latest garbage tweet. Pretty sure you've complained in the past how they covered this but now you've got a problem with the lack of it. Literally the only change is they've shut him down because he tried plunging us into a dictatorship.
Oh fucking bullshit. I'm not going to listen to this absolute horse shit that I haven't held Trump to any scrutiny, I've lost friends over it, so fucking save it. I SAID HE NEEDED TO BE IMPEACHED. This is the typical lazy ass fallback fucking answer. There's a flipside to that asslicking coin. Political violence was legitimized by the media and those who justified it or stayed silent about it for the past year. I said on this forum violence would eventually be used by the right, the people you DON'T agree with, because it was normalized, and unfortunately, it did.
Draw this: When you make ANY case for censorship, then who makes those decisions? These are the questions I've asked. So GODDAMN, FUCKING RIGHT no one said it BECAUSE you guys wont answer the points monkey and I've brought up about the consequeces. Just more bullshit hyperbole about ridiculous coups. Yadayadayada.
Death is a death is a death. They matter.
And I sure as shit am not going to let you guys put words in my mouth to continue this circle jerk argument.
YOU SAID THE MEDIA HAVE GOTTEN BETTER SINCE HIS TWITTER WAS DELETED. All they've done is talk about Trump. All they will do is continue to talk about Trump. It hasn't stopped.
Have fun agreeing with each other. I'm out.
I knew you were gonna flip out over that post of inconvenient truths.
I made sure to go over the past few pages of this thread to read your posts since the failed coup attempt before I hit submit.
I didn't have to edit my post.
You'll have a short sentence or two "condemning" Trump or mentioning impeachment, the rest is pure whataboutism and a sudden interest in censorship the moment the God Emperor was removed from Twitter.
It's not a coincidence that SG names you on his very short list of people in this thread who are "right" about what's going on.
You try to act like you're this independent who calls it down the middle...yet your middle somehow winds up in Trumpistan.
Have you criticized him before? Sure. Hell...I remember our debates of yesteryear over Reagan-Carter....and you weren't siding with Reagan. You're not a typical Trumper....yet here we are in the aftermath of a failed coup and instead of going over the bizarre incident and everything surrounding it, it's Antifa this, BLM that, and ranting about the evils of big tech.
We went over that stuff months ago. Yes it was sick...I was very harsh towards the movement. That was then, this is now.
An incident happened 5 days ago that could've destroyed this country. THAT is the topic at hand....not a goddamn BLM protest or Antifa riot last summer.
Have fun agreeing with each other. I'm out.
You're the one seeking an echo chamber.
Don't worry....you'll find it. You're probably already in one.
Just pick ANY Trumper site. Reddit conservative or conspiracy a good start. They're doing exactly what you're doing....
BLM
Antifa
Censorship of Trump
Big tech
Pulling up old quotes from politicians supporting the summer protests
Anything but acknowledging the elephant in the room.
YOU SAID THE MEDIA HAVE GOTTEN BETTER SINCE HIS TWITTER WAS DELETED. All they've done is talk about Trump. All they will do is continue to talk about Trump. It hasn't stopped.
it has gotten better. Do you see a bunch of articles freaking out over twitter posts? I sure as hell don't. That is an improvement to anyone who doesn't worship his Twitter.
Of course they're still talking about Trump!!!! The stupid mother fucker just tried to overthrow the government. I know you want em talking about Antifa, BLM, twitter, and anything but the failed coup but that ain't gonna happen.
You don't want to hear about it? Go dive into an alt right echo chamber. You'll hear nothing about it. Might want to close your eyes and plug your ears when they mention the next attempt though... unless it's only off limits if it fails.
No one is putting words in your mouth. Your posts are there for all to see.
You're willing to leave a community you've been a part of for almost 15 years over Donald Trump. DONALD TRUMP. I say it again for those in the back.... DONALD FUCKING TRUMP.
That is telling and it shows you're not as neutral/independent as you claim to be.
I'm as close to an independent as you'll get here yet everyone knows I lean right. I just don't lean so far right that my brain falls out.
Re: Current Events Thread
GAB was just hacked.
VOAT(an alt right version of reddit) just shut down willingly.
Looks like the far right echo chambers are vanishing.
Dang! Now it's gonna be hard for them to communicate with one another planning the next attack!
Fuck big tech! They supported a coffee shop burning down last summer! How dare they not support the implosion of our government in favor of an alt right dystopia!
THAT'S NOT FAIR!!!
Re: Current Events Thread
Credible threats have been made against Biden, Harris, Pelosi in addition to this ...
The FBI has received information indicating "armed protests" are being planned at all 50 state capitols and the US Capitol in the days leading up to President-elect Joe Biden's inauguration on January 20, according to an internal bulletin obtained by CNN https://t.co/Ow6Bm6gGtR
— CNN (@CNN) January 11, 2021Welcome to our new America.
Yeah it's crazy shit. Something bad is going to happen. What we witnessed on the 6th might have been the prelude.
The world has gone mad.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Current Events Thread
Looks like the New York state bar is going after him.
Unfortunately for Rudy, not everyone is willing to view his acts as the equivalent of an episode of Sesame Street like Trumpers are.
Which is just bizarre to me.
Seriously I have no skin in the game - I just do not think using the phrase "trial by combat" to metaphorically describe the possibility of ruining your reputation or someone going to jail over this case is grounds to diss-bar someone or whatever they intend for him now.
It's not like a trial by combat somehow relates to a mob doing violent deeds - a trial by combat was a duel with a formalised process.
It's very clearly used in the speech as a metaphor for the seriousness of losing his career or the other side going to jail.
There's nothing sesame street about that at all.
This is the type of thing that causes polarisation to me. Don't like Rudy? That's cool go find something he's actually done wrong and follow it up. I would have zero issue with that. But it's desperate to go through his speeches and find some colloquial expression used as a metaphor and then try and twist it retrospectively into a code word for people to riot.
It's just as bad on the republican side too - everyone characterises every argument of the other side as the most extreme version of everything. People who want health care are suddenly communists and people who want lower taxes are suddenly nazis. Everyone in politics just needs to calm down and look at things a bit more rationally to me.
Why didn't you comment on the other examples I listed?
Because i'm not here to be a republican shrill. I figured if I fact checked all of them and went through the other side of the coin on each of them then it looks like i'm here to argue for trump. That's not really my position.
My position is that similar to the way the "me too" movement sort to "cancel" people without trial or due process - I find it somewhat concerning that:
1. The actions of extremists can be used to silence moderate disagreement.
That is - we can't say there can never be police reform for black people cos some thugs burn down city hall - it doesn't mean the democrats now have to be de platformed or accused of tacitly encouraging it. Likewise if some of the crazies in trumps base go off message and turn a peaceful protest march into a war zone it's not really grounds to ban trump from speaking at all. It's different if either side directly calls for violence but it has not happened.
2. It concerns me how either side escalates and exaggerates everything. Maybe people on the left are not entirely pedos just because they want the minimum wage raised, and maybe everyone on the right who thinks globalisation isn't working isn't automatically nazi.
This incident was FUCKED UP. But it's gone from a riot, to an insurrection, to a failed coup.
I would be fine with that if all the people calling it a failed coup will similarly consider the BLM riot where trump had to be put in the bunker a failed assassination of POTUS then.
Only difference in these events is there was more security at the white house than there was at the capitol. Does anyone honestly think the radical elements at the BLM march wouldn't have done stuff like steal the podiums and smash some stuff exactly the same way if the cops had let them in the door?
There are democrat leaders who say stuff far more insightful than what trump said here.
I'm not saying that to be pro-republican. I'm just saying it's disturbing to me how people are so polarised and how they change the standards of what's acceptable to suit their arguments at the time. Both sides do it. We need some consistency.
3. I find it concerning from a philosophical point of view that we now have corporations that basically run borderline essential services (web hosting etc) that are almost like the modern utilities - yet these are run free from regulations as private enterprises. Now we have a situation where a group of CEOs can determine that the president of the USA needs to be silenced and it's free from any type of oversight or peer review or due process. That doesn't sit well with me regardless of the specifics of this case.
Serious question...
What would Trump and his goon squad have to do for you to take them seriously?
Well part of the problem is it's boy who cried wolf.
There's plenty of disturbing and outrageous things trump could do that would have me fearful of him.
But I've become somewhat desensitized to 4 years of my media saying he's a nazi and the anti-christ and every time one fact checks it then it's usually exaggerated.
Classic example was the article I read here about Trump calling for the rounding up and incarceration of his enemies. I thought "fuck, he really has turned into hitler". Article goes on to say he called for Hillary to be arrested. Found the speach. Played it back. Trump brings up 'crooked' hillary - audience yells "lock her up"...trump hears them say it...laughs gives it a dismissive wave and mumbles 'lock them all up' and goes back to saying how much better he is than whatever. No one sane would interpret that as an actual plan to jail political enemies when it's obviously facetious. So after many years of this I'm now curious to hear both sides whenever they start telling me he's the devil again.
That said he CAN and MIGHT do things that upset me. An actual call for violence would be one of them. But despite everyone saying it happened the other day...there doesn't seem to be footage where it really did. As soon as I see some I'll grab my pitch fork and come for the guy too.
Until then...I'm not getting on board that the tech billionaires should censor the elected government and i'm not ending people's career for using a phrase like "trial by combat" clearly as a metaphor for an important legal battle.
I'm not a trumper and I'm not a republican, I'm just someone asking for some of this to make sense on either side.
Re: Current Events Thread
James wrote:Anything but acknowledging the elephant in the room.
https://twitter.com/BillWeirCNN/status/1348395383916027906
[/embed]
They won't watch that. Didn't you know....a coffee shop burned down last year! That is important and must be discussed now!
That video is sickening. Anyone who would want to either support that movement or distract from the issue really needs to take a good look in the mirror and see what they've become.
Even if our nation survives Trumpism...we will never fully recover from it. Not in our lifetimes anyways.
Trumpism has driven people completely insane. They're a shell of what they were before Trump ran for president.
Is every person who voted for him bat shit crazy? Of course not. Unfortunately, millions of people fell under his spell and took the express elevator to hell. I think this crack down on conspiracy/far right social media should've happened when that Q shit started driving hordes of them crazy. It was a sign that went ignored.
Anytime you see someone ignoring, sidestepping, or trivializing this failed coup, send em this link....
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P … xp-ZXCU6Ic
It's a playlist of a hundred videos in chronological order showing what happened in the Capitol. Maybe they'll watch it and wake up instead of focusing on the Halley's comet flyby of 86...or anything else not named Trump.
Re: Current Events Thread
James wrote:Looks like the New York state bar is going after him.
Unfortunately for Rudy, not everyone is willing to view his acts as the equivalent of an episode of Sesame Street like Trumpers are.
Which is just bizarre to me.
Seriously I have no skin in the game - I just do not think using the phrase "trial by combat" to metaphorically describe the possibility of ruining your reputation or someone going to jail over this case is grounds to diss-bar someone or whatever they intend for him now.
It's not like a trial by combat somehow relates to a mob doing violent deeds - a trial by combat was a duel with a formalised process.
It's very clearly used in the speech as a metaphor for the seriousness of losing his career or the other side going to jail.
There's nothing sesame street about that at all.
This is the type of thing that causes polarisation to me. Don't like Rudy? That's cool go find something he's actually done wrong and follow it up. I would have zero issue with that. But it's desperate to go through his speeches and find some colloquial expression used as a metaphor and then try and twist it retrospectively into a code word for people to riot.
It's just as bad on the republican side too - everyone characterises every argument of the other side as the most extreme version of everything. People who want health care are suddenly communists and people who want lower taxes are suddenly nazis. Everyone in politics just needs to calm down and look at things a bit more rationally to me.
Why didn't you comment on the other examples I listed?
Because i'm not here to be a republican shrill. I figured if I fact checked all of them and went through the other side of the coin on each of them then it looks like i'm here to argue for trump. That's not really my position.
My position is that similar to the way the "me too" movement sort to "cancel" people without trial or due process - I find it somewhat concerning that:
1. The actions of extremists can be used to silence moderate disagreement.
That is - we can't say there can never be police reform for black people cos some thugs burn down city hall - it doesn't mean the democrats now have to be de platformed or accused of tacitly encouraging it. Likewise if some of the crazies in trumps base go off message and turn a peaceful protest march into a war zone it's not really grounds to ban trump from speaking at all. It's different if either side directly calls for violence but it has not happened.
2. It concerns me how either side escalates and exaggerates everything. Maybe people on the left are not entirely pedos just because they want the minimum wage raised, and maybe everyone on the right who thinks globalisation isn't working isn't automatically nazi.
This incident was FUCKED UP. But it's gone from a riot, to an insurrection, to a failed coup.
I would be fine with that if all the people calling it a failed coup will similarly consider the BLM riot where trump had to be put in the bunker a failed assassination of POTUS then.
Only difference in these events is there was more security at the white house than there was at the capitol. Does anyone honestly think the radical elements at the BLM march wouldn't have done stuff like steal the podiums and smash some stuff exactly the same way if the cops had let them in the door?
There are democrat leaders who say stuff far more insightful than what trump said here.
I'm not saying that to be pro-republican. I'm just saying it's disturbing to me how people are so polarised and how they change the standards of what's acceptable to suit their arguments at the time. Both sides do it. We need some consistency.
3. I find it concerning from a philosophical point of view that we now have corporations that basically run borderline essential services (web hosting etc) that are almost like the modern utilities - yet these are run free from regulations as private enterprises. Now we have a situation where a group of CEOs can determine that the president of the USA needs to be silenced and it's free from any type of oversight or peer review or due process. That doesn't sit well with me regardless of the specifics of this case.
James wrote:Serious question...
What would Trump and his goon squad have to do for you to take them seriously?
Well part of the problem is it's boy who cried wolf.
There's plenty of disturbing and outrageous things trump could do that would have me fearful of him.
But I've become somewhat desensitized to 4 years of my media saying he's a nazi and the anti-christ and every time one fact checks it then it's usually exaggerated.
Classic example was the article I read here about Trump calling for the rounding up and incarceration of his enemies. I thought "fuck, he really has turned into hitler". Article goes on to say he called for Hillary to be arrested. Found the speach. Played it back. Trump brings up 'crooked' hillary - audience yells "lock her up"...trump hears them say it...laughs gives it a dismissive wave and mumbles 'lock them all up' and goes back to saying how much better he is than whatever. No one sane would interpret that as an actual plan to jail political enemies when it's obviously facetious. So after many years of this I'm now curious to hear both sides whenever they start telling me he's the devil again.
That said he CAN and MIGHT do things that upset me. An actual call for violence would be one of them. But despite everyone saying it happened the other day...there doesn't seem to be footage where it really did. As soon as I see some I'll grab my pitch fork and come for the guy too.
Until then...I'm not getting on board that the tech billionaires should censor the elected government and i'm not ending people's career for using a phrase like "trial by combat" clearly as a metaphor for an important legal battle.
I'm not a trumper and I'm not a republican, I'm just someone asking for some of this to make sense on either side.
I was going to try to respond point by point but really I think I can sum it all up pretty succinctly...
It starts when everything is turned upside down. What's up is down and what's down is up. What's right is now left...and so on...
They started this all off with the phrase 'alternative facts' where they reinvented everything except for the wheel itself. It was a new language where everything had to be the opposite of the way it was no matter what. Just backlash against everything, everywhere and turn it upside down.
The individual players (Giuliani and whoever the fuck) who pushed this narrative never stopped, never relented and literally forced it down your throat.
And then you get what we have here....which is an inability to properly see the world. An inability to properly weight what is more important than something else. An inability to weight things with the proper significance and importance.
Your concern for Giuliani's law career after the last 4 years of his conduct makes little sense to me. Professionals are held to a much higher level of conduct and standard to maintain their licensure and call themselves a part of that community. You have concern for Giuliani's career and free speec but don't seem to consider what his conduct had done to the field and profession of being a lawyer. There's no doubt in my mind that Giuliani has left a noticeable stain on an already dirty profession just in the last two months. From basically bullshitting and spit balling in front of judges with no semblance of a legal argument whatsoever to acting like a freak on cable news networks...he's left a shit stain on his profession.
That's enough to be seriously considered for disbarment. It's not that different from an ambulance chaser or a doctor that prescribes unnecessary meds for a kickback.
So...it's not just what Giuliani did last week...it's what he's done for 4 plus years. A culmination of shotty lawyer work and a complete lack of ethics...repeatedly..on display everyday.
