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Re: US Politics Thread
mitchejw wrote:Truly appreciate the thoughtful response....
I'd like to return in kind...you have to take into consideration the context. The context that we live in right now. Calling any new idea or concept Marxist isn't fair. Let's just take the BLM movement. In a country with the first amendment rights that we are all afforded, why shouldn't they also get to peaceably assemble?
Now here's the big problem...if you're going to start throwing around words like antifa and other abstract terms to describe people who are trying to express a message then of course you're scared. And those that lump BLM into other violence some times perpetrated by right wing groups then you're just going to get more afraid.
In this country we openly embrass the voices of everyone....and when they come out aggressively, it means there's been some serious oppression going on...
I want to strive towards a democracy where more voices are heard....not less...
I'm not sure what you're talking about or what your objection is. Can you elaborate?
If all you got from that article is "conspiracy theory" and "red scare paranoia", fair enough, but I disagree.
I'm concerned about Marxism because these people (1) say they're Marxists and (2) act like Marxists. If it acts like a duck....
Marxism has been around forever so it's not a "new" issue. But true enough, just because an idea is marxist it doesn't mean it's good, bad, etc. But Marxism is a promotion of the state over anything else. The big brother government. I think that's contrary to America, American values, and the constitution and will create more issues than it solves. Furthermore, I think the utopian Marxist ideas introduced to us in the past 50 years or so have a destabilizing effect on our relationships and society.
The crux of the issue for me is this, if anyone is sensible they should care about the economy, all Americans, and injustices. The problem is the BLM movement is not just about racial justice. It has tons of other issues and in my opinion, being used as a Trojan Horse for tons of Leftist ideas. It's like when Comcast tries to sell you a deal that includes phone and internet when you just want the internet. Or bills in congress which sneak in various clauses at the last minute, etc. It's a false choice, by the way, the idea of "we Marxists will save you" (instead of good economic policy by whomever is in office to give power and wealth back to the people).
Everyone should have the right to protest or no one should. The Democrats are all pro-protest because that's their base. They will in one breath say don't go to a funeral or hang out with your family and in another say go protest. It's hypocritical and obviously partisan and doubly so when they're busted without masks on or going on trips with their family. Rules for you, not for me. I touched on this in the COVID thread.
I'm not okay with violence, looting, intimidation, pulling down statues, or destruction of private property on either side of the aisle. I know people are pissed off, I think it comes from economic anxiety but this is just a violation of law and order on a massive scale.
I think most people are so inundated with nonsense 24/7 it's hard to actually understand what the issues are, how to combat them, etc. They don't know about the values of BLM for example so they go with what "sounds good". They don't know about the leadership, the lobbies, the think tanks, the private donors. Compound that with people on both sides being absurdly toxic. It's all so exhausting, isn't it?
I hear your concerns and I understand...who couldn't agree that we should all care about the economy and how everyone is affected by economic conditions.
I've just been watching these scare tactic videos for decades now and I usually reject this stuff because I'm not going to make a decision out of fear.
If there's one thing I've learned about BLM...it's that it is not the organized body that everyone wants it to be. It's disorganized...it doesn't really have a message that clear and it really has no leaders. The last part I find quite intriguing. The general message resonates so much that it doesn't need to be organized. It doesn't need to have a specific political agenda.
But here we are talking about this while Trump continues to bail out his friends and makes a mockery of our justice system. That to me is far more scary than the disorganized chaos of BLM.
My advice to you is to identify propaganda the second you see it....it's a common tool of the right the scare the shit out of people with the words communism and socialism. Reject that...don't be afraid of new ideas. Also...I have zero confidence that America will be anything but an extremely conservitive country with socialism sprinkled in here and there.
Re: US Politics Thread
"It really has no leaders"
Convicted terrorist Susan Rosenberg received a commuted sentence under the Clinton admin on his last day in office. She's on the board of BLM. George Soros gives millions to BLM. Look into Soros' comments and Davos and elsewhere for his thoughts and beliefs. It's something of reflexive thing on the left to say "pfft! Soros is a conspiracy" but then maybe talk about Rupert Murdoch in the same way. But yeah, please look into it.
I encourage you to look into the Russiagate thing more intimately. It was clear it was a witch hunt from the beginning as stated by many in the intelligence community and news media even. It was a big fishing expedition designed to lead breadcrumbs to manufactured "evidence".
If you think Stone did something wrong, fair enough, but consider the Rosenberg commuted sentence. If you're okay with literal domestic terrorism as in dynamic and submachine guns be my guest... (and also look into Obamas astronomically high number of commuted sentences and ICE and drone strike records).
I've never aligned myself with the left or right, my voting record would show you that. I've always tried to follow the truth, do as much research as possible, and make sensible conclusions.
Re: US Politics Thread
"It really has no leaders"
Convicted terrorist Susan Rosenberg received a commuted sentence under the Clinton admin on his last day in office. She's on the board of BLM. George Soros gives millions to BLM. Look into Soros' comments and Davos and elsewhere for his thoughts and beliefs. It's something of reflexive thing on the left to say "pfft! Soros is a conspiracy" but then maybe talk about Rupert Murdoch in the same way. But yeah, please look into it.
I encourage you to look into the Russiagate thing more intimately. It was clear it was a witch hunt from the beginning as stated by many in the intelligence community and news media even. It was a big fishing expedition designed to lead breadcrumbs to manufactured "evidence".
If you think Stone did something wrong, fair enough, but consider the Rosenberg commuted sentence. If you're okay with literal domestic terrorism as in dynamic and submachine guns be my guest... (and also look into Obamas astronomically high number of commuted sentences and ICE and drone strike records).I've never aligned myself with the left or right, my voting record would show you that. I've always tried to follow the truth, do as much research as possible, and make sensible conclusions.
No, you have it all wrong. Unless you completely bury Trump and all Republicans regardless of the issue, you're the problem. Don't think. Don't look for information. Information is the enemy.
Re: US Politics Thread
"It really has no leaders"
Convicted terrorist Susan Rosenberg received a commuted sentence under the Clinton admin on his last day in office. She's on the board of BLM. George Soros gives millions to BLM. Look into Soros' comments and Davos and elsewhere for his thoughts and beliefs. It's something of reflexive thing on the left to say "pfft! Soros is a conspiracy" but then maybe talk about Rupert Murdoch in the same way. But yeah, please look into it.
I encourage you to look into the Russiagate thing more intimately. It was clear it was a witch hunt from the beginning as stated by many in the intelligence community and news media even. It was a big fishing expedition designed to lead breadcrumbs to manufactured "evidence".
If you think Stone did something wrong, fair enough, but consider the Rosenberg commuted sentence. If you're okay with literal domestic terrorism as in dynamic and submachine guns be my guest... (and also look into Obamas astronomically high number of commuted sentences and ICE and drone strike records).I've never aligned myself with the left or right, my voting record would show you that. I've always tried to follow the truth, do as much research as possible, and make sensible conclusions.
Listen...I've just had enough...for 25 years the right shat all over the Clintons and the complete and utter bull shit machine they created during that time lends them zero credibility to me.
I don't even give a shit about the Clintons....I'm just tired of the catch phrases and the cute little nicknames...
I don't even know what Russiagate is anymore....is it like pizzagate? Or is it like the earth is flat or the moon landing was all fake?
Rich, white men have gotten away with murder in this country since its conception. If you're going to equate BLM with domestic terrorism then you're painting with broad strokes.
Re: US Politics Thread
Listen...I've just had enough...for 25 years the right shat all over the Clintons and the complete and utter bull shit machine they created during that time lends them zero credibility to me.
I don't even give a shit about the Clintons....I'm just tired of the catch phrases and the cute little nicknames...
I don't even know what Russiagate is anymore....is it like pizzagate? Or is it like the earth is flat or the moon landing was all fake?
Rich, white men have gotten away with murder in this country since its conception. If you're going to equate BLM with domestic terrorism then you're painting with broad strokes.
Russiagate was the false claim Trump colluded with the Russians to win the election.
This was proven false and while Russia intervenes, it's mostly to troll, China steals copyright, and both parties tried to use social media to influence the election and Hillary was found to do more of the fuckery. I've read more on Russiagate, general interference I'm far less familiar with.
Also, two things can be true at once.
No, you have it all wrong. Unless you completely bury Trump and all Republicans regardless of the issue, you're the problem. Don't think. Don't look for information. Information is the enemy.
lol.
Re: US Politics Thread
Hedges hits the mark.
Some important nuance missing but good article.
Article:
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020 … ling-class
Discussion:
Re: US Politics Thread
mitchejw wrote:Listen...I've just had enough...for 25 years the right shat all over the Clintons and the complete and utter bull shit machine they created during that time lends them zero credibility to me.
I don't even give a shit about the Clintons....I'm just tired of the catch phrases and the cute little nicknames...
I don't even know what Russiagate is anymore....is it like pizzagate? Or is it like the earth is flat or the moon landing was all fake?
Rich, white men have gotten away with murder in this country since its conception. If you're going to equate BLM with domestic terrorism then you're painting with broad strokes.
Russiagate was the false claim Trump colluded with the Russians to win the election.
This was proven false and while Russia intervenes, it's mostly to troll, China steals copyright, and both parties tried to use social media to influence the election and Hillary was found to do more of the fuckery. I've read more on Russiagate, general interference I'm far less familiar with.
Also, two things can be true at once.
buzzsaw wrote:No, you have it all wrong. Unless you completely bury Trump and all Republicans regardless of the issue, you're the problem. Don't think. Don't look for information. Information is the enemy.
lol.
I mean... the guy on live tv asked for help to hack a political opponent...on more than one occasion.
If anything...the Mueller investigation was meandering at best. He resigned himself and the investigation's role in all of this to a level that the whole thing was a huge waste of time.
Either way...it's a moot point...because many things Trump has done since being elected have made 'russiagate' a minor footnote.
Just make sure you make your Trump campaign contribution before committing those crimes, kids!
Re: US Politics Thread
Hedges hits the mark.
Some important nuance missing but good article.
Article:
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020 … ling-classDiscussion:
[/embed]
Watched about the first 15 minutes...I'll watch more when I have time...pretty good stuff though, I agree.
I get stuck in a circle though when people complain about past and current 'leaders.' Why do we continue to elect the same people then? Mitch McConnell has been in the senate for what seems like a life time. Pelosi too...
People bitch about term limits then elect the same mutherfuckers for their 8th, 9th and 10th terms in the senate and house. Who is really to blame for that?
The United States is an empire in steep decline.
Re: US Politics Thread
Wagszilla wrote:"It really has no leaders"
Convicted terrorist Susan Rosenberg received a commuted sentence under the Clinton admin on his last day in office. She's on the board of BLM. George Soros gives millions to BLM. Look into Soros' comments and Davos and elsewhere for his thoughts and beliefs. It's something of reflexive thing on the left to say "pfft! Soros is a conspiracy" but then maybe talk about Rupert Murdoch in the same way. But yeah, please look into it.
I encourage you to look into the Russiagate thing more intimately. It was clear it was a witch hunt from the beginning as stated by many in the intelligence community and news media even. It was a big fishing expedition designed to lead breadcrumbs to manufactured "evidence".
If you think Stone did something wrong, fair enough, but consider the Rosenberg commuted sentence. If you're okay with literal domestic terrorism as in dynamic and submachine guns be my guest... (and also look into Obamas astronomically high number of commuted sentences and ICE and drone strike records).I've never aligned myself with the left or right, my voting record would show you that. I've always tried to follow the truth, do as much research as possible, and make sensible conclusions.
No, you have it all wrong. Unless you completely bury Trump and all Republicans regardless of the issue, you're the problem. Don't think. Don't look for information. Information is the enemy.
Amusing...
As has been stated repeatedly by many sources...Mueller didn't exonerate Trump of anything regarding collusion. Essentially, the report stated that there really are no laws against this for a president. If you look closer, there appears to be tons of rules against this for members of the Senate or the House.
Whats more alarming to me is that you wouldn't care either way...whether or not it was legal was not an important part of your thought process. You just don't care...
There has been a lot of stupid shit regarding Hillary that's been repeatedly debunked but that doesn't seem to matter on this message board.
What about Benghazi? Have we gotten to the bottom of that yet?
