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- elevendayempire
- Rep: 96
Re: Matt Sorum's book leaks online.
Instead of saying "fuck Izzy", Duff should thank his lucky stars that he is also required for a reunion and didn't slip into the status of other ex-members. It could've happened so easily.
I think it's more that you can get away with billing Slash + Axl as a reunion, but ideally you need one more person there to reach a critical mass of mainstream acceptance. Axl + Slash + Tommy + Izzy + Frank etc would be just as acceptable to the casual fans who consider the NITL line-up a "reunion".
Duff was always more likely, though, partly because he's the business-minded one so he was likely the one who engineered the reunion in the first place (I've never bought that story that he "just happened" to bump into Axl in a hotel). Also because he and Slash have worked together consistently in the past on Velvet Revolver. There's also the fact that there's historical precedent for Axl + Slash + Duff + some other musicians as "classic GN'R" because even during the band's heyday, that was the UYI line-up.
I never really thought they'd get Matt back. In Velvet Revolver they needed him for the aforementioned "critical mass" - Duff + Slash is vaguely interesting on its own, but Duff + Slash + Matt is suddenly a "GN'R reunion minus Axl". But just from his book you can see that there's a bit of a culture clash between Matt and the others.
It just made sense to plug Slash and Duff into the already-tested touring machine that was Axl's GN'R; Axl wanted some of "his guys" there to balance things out, the Frank/Fortus rhythm section already knows the songs, they're not going to rock the boat etc.
And once you have the Big Three, you've got that critical mass you need to call it a "reunion," so Izzy, Matt, Gilby and Adler are no longer needed. Hence you offer them guest spots at a fixed rate. It's harsh, but it's good business sense.
Re: Matt Sorum's book leaks online.
Great post 11day....
I think it's more that you can get away with billing Slash + Axl as a reunion, but ideally you need one more person there to reach a critical mass of mainstream acceptance. Axl + Slash + Tommy + Izzy + Frank etc would be just as acceptable to the casual fans who consider the NITL line-up a "reunion"
I see your point...but I disagree.
Duff was a requirement just like Slash was. Placing Izzy, Gilby, Adler, or Sorum in that spot doesn't have the same impact.
Duff's near constant 25 year association with Slash combined with him always being out there promoting is what placed him in the must have category. Also like you and skydog said, he's like a neutral party in the Axl-Slash dynamic and it would blow up without his input.
I also think Duff was smart enough to know the reunion was coming regardless of any drama, and he had a strategic approach to it.
I was simply pointing out that if the winds blow another way years ago, his role may not have been as relevant and this is why he shouldn't be so abrasive towards an original member like Izzy.
Izzy had perfect shit timing on bailing out. He left in the opening phase of that massive tour.
When the world looks back on the UYI saga, they don't see Izzy.....they see the 92 lineup.
Kinda fucked up when you think about it.
It means if GNR decided to reunite the UYI lineup for a limited tour/Vegas residency for the anniversary, Izzy could/would still be excluded in favor of Gilby....and only a few hardcore fans would complain.
Maybe this partially plays into the "fuck Izzy" stance.....he knows that under no scenario is Izzy actually needed. Hell....you could do an AFD reunion with Fortus standing in his place and 99% of the audience wouldn't know the difference.
I also agree that we didn't get the real story on the hotel meetup.
I'll also go to my grave saying we were supposed to get the reunion in 2005-06 but it blew up in their faces....and we got a quick batch of leaks and CD tour round two in its place.
I also think a reunion was quietly considered behind the scenes in 2001. In that timeframe we got Axl saying Slash could appear on a few songs if he apologized and his odd attempt to get Izzy to join before Rio.
I also don't think we got the full story on Slash going to the Vegas show with the hangers on tossing him out.
If they ever reveal the whole truth and nothing but the truth..... we'll find out he tried getting the old band back together more than he tried getting the album out.....
- FlashFlood
- Rep: 55
Re: Matt Sorum's book leaks online.
Great post 11day....
I think it's more that you can get away with billing Slash + Axl as a reunion, but ideally you need one more person there to reach a critical mass of mainstream acceptance. Axl + Slash + Tommy + Izzy + Frank etc would be just as acceptable to the casual fans who consider the NITL line-up a "reunion"
I see your point...but I disagree.
Duff was a requirement just like Slash was. Placing Izzy, Gilby, Adler, or Sorum in that spot doesn't have the same impact.
Duff's near constant 25 year association with Slash combined with him always being out there promoting is what placed him in the must have category. Also like you and skydog said, he's like a neutral party in the Axl-Slash dynamic and it would blow up without his input.
I also think Duff was smart enough to know the reunion was coming regardless of any drama, and he had a strategic approach to it.
I was simply pointing out that if the winds blow another way years ago, his role may not have been as relevant and this is why he shouldn't be so abrasive towards an original member like Izzy.
Izzy had perfect shit timing on bailing out. He left in the opening phase of that massive tour.
When the world looks back on the UYI saga, they don't see Izzy.....they see the 92 lineup.
Kinda fucked up when you think about it.
It means if GNR decided to reunite the UYI lineup for a limited tour/Vegas residency for the anniversary, Izzy could/would still be excluded in favor of Gilby....and only a few hardcore fans would complain.
Maybe this partially plays into the "fuck Izzy" stance.....he knows that under no scenario is Izzy actually needed. Hell....you could do an AFD reunion with Fortus standing in his place and 99% of the audience wouldn't know the difference.
I also agree that we didn't get the real story on the hotel meetup.
I'll also go to my grave saying we were supposed to get the reunion in 2005-06 but it blew up in their faces....and we got a quick batch of leaks and CD tour round two in its place.
I also think a reunion was quietly considered behind the scenes in 2001. In that timeframe we got Axl saying Slash could appear on a few songs if he apologized and his odd attempt to get Izzy to join before Rio.
I also don't think we got the full story on Slash going to the Vegas show with the hangers on tossing him out.
If they ever reveal the whole truth and nothing but the truth..... we'll find out he tried getting the old band back together more than he tried getting the album out.....
We’ve been discussing this a bit...remember GnR was booked to open for the Rolling Stones Spring/Summer 2006? I think the shows ended up being rescheduled and GnR were not a part of them. Makes you wonder if it was related to the near-reunion.
Re: Matt Sorum's book leaks online.
I also agree that we didn't get the real story on the hotel meetup.
I'll also go to my grave saying we were supposed to get the reunion in 2005-06 but it blew up in their faces....and we got a quick batch of leaks and CD tour round two in its place.
I also think a reunion was quietly considered behind the scenes in 2001. In that timeframe we got Axl saying Slash could appear on a few songs if he apologized and his odd attempt to get Izzy to join before Rio.
I also don't think we got the full story on Slash going to the Vegas show with the hangers on tossing him out.
If they ever reveal the whole truth and nothing but the truth..... we'll find out he tried getting the old band back together more than he tried getting the album out.....
That last part is both sad and funny to me.
Wasn't the infamous drunken Slash visit to Axl's house around 2005 or 2006 as well?
Re: Matt Sorum's book leaks online.
We’ve been discussing this a bit...remember GnR was booked to open for the Rolling Stones Spring/Summer 2006? I think the shows ended up being rescheduled and GnR were not a part of them. Makes you wonder if it was related to the near-reunion.
The Stones had a thing about wanting major acts as openers. How much more major can you get than a reunited GNR? The last shows of the original band were opening for the Stones(Farm Aid excluded).
I wasn't surprised that went tits up. CD era GNR wasn't the same and no surprise that the Stones had no interest in that.
Wasn't the infamous drunken Slash visit to Axl's house around 2005 or 2006 as well.
Yes. Slash goes to Axls house.... supposedly Axl won't see him....so he whines to Beta about how Duff is spineless and Axl is stronger. 
Me thinks this was a desperate attempt by Slash to get the reunion back on track.
There might have even been an attempt to get something going in 2002 but that also blew up. He did nothing on that tour but rant about ex members and clearly didn't want to be there.
Re: Matt Sorum's book leaks online.
With the touring industry potentially in its death throes and Live Nation making a bunch of changes, we may have seen the last of GNR.
I doubt this the end, but yeah.. that next stadium tour is going to be a while.
NITL regardless of what anyone thinks was one of the 3 most sucessful tours if all time.
If there isn't a new album, it'll be interesting how long this line-up (Axl, Slash and Duff) hold together without it raining cash. Though it's not like an album that sells millions is possible anyway.
On the book, I still think it's a good thing it was pulled or delayed (for himself). I think he would have opened the door to all kinds of accusations against the rest of the uyi line-up and himself by women in those lines.
Re: Matt Sorum's book leaks online.
FlashFlood wrote:We’ve been discussing this a bit...remember GnR was booked to open for the Rolling Stones Spring/Summer 2006? I think the shows ended up being rescheduled and GnR were not a part of them. Makes you wonder if it was related to the near-reunion.
The Stones had a thing about wanting major acts as openers. How much more major can you get than a reunited GNR? The last shows of the original band were opening for the Stones(Farm Aid excluded).
I wasn't surprised that went tits up. CD era GNR wasn't the same and no surprise that the Stones had no interest in that.
Wasn't the infamous drunken Slash visit to Axl's house around 2005 or 2006 as well.
Yes. Slash goes to Axls house.... supposedly Axl won't see him....so he whines to Beta about how Duff is spineless and Axl is stronger.
Me thinks this was a desperate attempt by Slash to get the reunion back on track.
There might have even been an attempt to get something going in 2002 but that also blew up. He did nothing on that tour but rant about ex members and clearly didn't want to be there.
I'm kinda interested in what the hell was the sticking point in 2005/2006 that caused them basically to go their own seperate ways for close to 10 years before finally reuniting. Must have been about the partnership agreement/ and the name.
Re: Matt Sorum's book leaks online.
James wrote:FlashFlood wrote:We’ve been discussing this a bit...remember GnR was booked to open for the Rolling Stones Spring/Summer 2006? I think the shows ended up being rescheduled and GnR were not a part of them. Makes you wonder if it was related to the near-reunion.
The Stones had a thing about wanting major acts as openers. How much more major can you get than a reunited GNR? The last shows of the original band were opening for the Stones(Farm Aid excluded).
I wasn't surprised that went tits up. CD era GNR wasn't the same and no surprise that the Stones had no interest in that.
Wasn't the infamous drunken Slash visit to Axl's house around 2005 or 2006 as well.
Yes. Slash goes to Axls house.... supposedly Axl won't see him....so he whines to Beta about how Duff is spineless and Axl is stronger.
Me thinks this was a desperate attempt by Slash to get the reunion back on track.
There might have even been an attempt to get something going in 2002 but that also blew up. He did nothing on that tour but rant about ex members and clearly didn't want to be there.
I'm kinda interested in what the hell was the sticking point in 2005/2006 that caused them basically to go their own seperate ways for close to 10 years before finally reuniting. Must have been about the partnership agreement/ and the name.
When looking at Slash's description of Duff(spineless), I've wondered if Duff Mr. Financial Guru Mckagan got a tad too big for his britches on the money, partnership, etc. aspect and this ruined the whole thing...so Slash comes running over drunk and practically on his knees begging for mercy.
Before cooler heads can prevail....we've got a plan B and badly planned CD tour underway on Axl's side of the fence and VR's round two on its way as well.
Fast forward a year and change, the album is treated as a throwaway beer coaster and fast forward one more year, a never ending series of CD tours that don't really amount to anything.
The planets just couldn't align properly again. Once 2014 rolled around, it was obvious the new GNR concept was completely out of gas and no reason to continue it....
....then the planets conveniently start aligning.
He was stubborn that's for sure. After the reunion, we heard from one of the ex tour managers that he was already thinking about reunion in 2011 but the time wasn't right.
Yeah the time was right.... five years earlier.
I used to think Finck bailed in 2007 due to frustration over the album. I now believe a big part of it was he saw how close a reunion had been before that tour, saw no movement on the album, and sensed the writing on the wall.
I also think Brain walked away for similar reasons.
