You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Re: Racial Discussion
I have a ton of thoughts, but where to begin and where is the time. I attended a demonstration in my small town outside Chicago the other night, and one of the speakers said something that I’ve thought a lot about and posted about: redlining and housing and how it has affected the upward mobility of predominantly minorities, but also poor folks.
I will follow up but just wanted to chime in and say I’m not ignoring this thread.
I know you're not, but a lot of people are. Quite frankly with the ridiculous white guilt/shaming going around I don't blame them.
- A Private Eye
- Rep: 77
Re: Racial Discussion
When I said in the politics thread the other day about Trumps election being a response to the left this is what I meant. Admittedly I had not foreseen the 7 days that have followed but it's a great example. I wasn't meaning so much the corridors of power had shifted too far left or policies of specific governments so much as a societal shift left. Or at least far too loud a voice is afforded to the radical left which I think results in the electorate voting more to the right in response. I know you wanted to keep this politics free but the two are linked I feel, at least in terms of what I outlined above.
Demanding that people should hang their heads in shame and self flagellate for the crimes of their ancestors two centuries ago (broad generalisation), meanwhile insisting on removing and censoring any entertainment medium from pop culture history that doesn't meet June 2020's new standard is not, in my view at least, going to win people round. Neither is removing and defacing statues or memorials of historical figures. Then anyone who makes a point along those lines is labelled a bigot and shutdown. So we see the response in the voting booth instead, the only place left where people can voice an honest opinion.
I will leave the explicit politics there, or at least try.
Like most inequalities they are often far more complex than any one explanation and to simply boil down the whole topic to 'systemic racism' in this case massively over simplifies the subject. I think the response then does more harm than good in trying to correct inequality generally with a 'top down' approach which usually just results in positive discrimination which is then alienating to a different group of people.
That's not to deny racism exists either, clearly it does and will be a factor but it is one of many.
Re: Racial Discussion
There are too many people who scream for change, tolerance and unity who really don't want it. White supremacy is too lucrative, it sells books, speaking engagements, t.v. Appearances, etc. That's why the goal posts always move. You cave to demands, it inevitably shifts to something else.
One thing I've noticed -- social media is not real life nor representative of it.
Re: Racial Discussion
I think that there are times where the truth is insensitive. I think there are times we do more damage worrying about someone's feelings than actually how we can help them. I don't think there are many people (and this thread kind of proves it on a small scale) that really want to have the difficult conversations that need to be had if we're really going to make life better for people. Instead we just want to make ourselves feel better like we made a difference by blacking out our FB pages, watching BET for an hour, or professing some white privilege guilt.
There are ABSOLUTELY racist people in this country and around the world. There's not a lot, but they are out there. Some of them are white. Some of them are black. Some are Hispanic or another race/ethnicity. There are good and bad people of all races, religions, ethnicities, wealth/social status, career/company, etc. I believe strongly that there are less of those people than there used to be, but they still exist and it's likely they will always exist.
The problems facing blacks go well beyond racism. I'd argue that's a very small percentage of their challenges in today's world. The system isn't stacked against them specifically; it's stacked against the poor. Now within the poor, there are groups that have more advantages and less advantages, but it isn't solely because of their race.
I can only speak to my experiences in life, but in Chicago there was a big difference for blacks growing up in Cabrini Green (notorious housing development in Chicago...look it up if you've never heard of it) and growing up in say Kankakee (an hour or so south of Chicago). They weren't more or less black in one location. Did the kids in Kankakee have privilege over the ones at Cabrini Green? Did Obama's kids grow up with the same challenges as either group? How about black doctors, lawyers, professionals in any capacity...do they have the same challenges?
What if race isn't the issue, but it's systematic socioeconomic barriers that are holding people back? We have to agree that black people raised in the inner city are disadvantaged over black kids raised in suburban neighborhoods. But the same goes for every other race in those same circumstances. Are people racist against the inner city white kids?
For some reason, the perception is that the only path out of the inner city is through athletics or music (or some other non-education related path). When I lived in Chicago, the gangs pretty much left the athletes alone..especially the elite ones...even if they were gang affiliated. So is privilege a thing even in the black community?
Privilege absolutely exists, but I don't think it comes in the form that people seem to think it does. There's an enemy (so to speak), but they aren't going after the right one. Worse than that, they are being manipulated by the very people that are holding them down.
I'm sure to some this post will make me a racist in some people's eyes. That's unfortunate, but it is what it is. Those that actually know me know the truth and I am not too worried about what people that don't know me think.
Re: Racial Discussion
I think Wealth supremacy is far more hurtful and prevalent than white supremacy, tbh.
I understand the philosophy behind white privilege, but it still doesn't change that poor whites in rural America exist and aren't privileged. Ignoring them only brings out most white Americans REAL bigotry.
You can draw a line from slavery to the crime, poverty and drug use in modern, urban black communities. They are still feeling the effects of it, and have been behind the eight ball since emancipation and reconstruction. But so are poor, rural whites.
- TheSundanceKid
- Rep: 30
Re: Racial Discussion
I just judge a person on who they are.
To Kill A Mockingbird for sure influenced my perspective.
No one should pay for the sins of their ancestors.
I agree with the class divide. Isn’t that what that great movie Blue Collar (1978) is about?
Years ago I might have said oh so and so is white or whatever their race. I don’t use that anymore as it puts that individual in a box, and I’m making their race an issue even though it isn’t (just using it as a description). I know I wouldn’t want to be referred as you know Sundance the White guy. Yes I’m white, but it demeans I find.
Also, I call people on their bullshit race stuff. I have a co worker and he was going on about such and such group being lazy and I was like dude that’s not true, base it on an individual and not their race. And this person is Italian so I could use a list of things people said about Italians back in the day.
The same person does make sexist comments at times, like oh a man can’t do that anymore blah blah or this woman gets away with everything. It’s like dude...
Now I’ve never seen them act sexist or racist to any individuals as they’re a good worker and genuinely nice.
So I call people out on their prejudices, and when I describe a person their colour, orientation play no role in how they’re mentioned.
Re: Racial Discussion
I just judge a person on who they are.
To Kill A Mockingbird for sure influenced my perspective.
No one should pay for the sins of their ancestors.
I agree with the class divide. Isn’t that what that great movie Blue Collar (1978) is about?
Years ago I might have said oh so and so is white or whatever their race. I don’t use that anymore as it puts that individual in a box, and I’m making their race an issue even though it isn’t (just using it as a description). I know I wouldn’t want to be referred as you know Sundance the White guy. Yes I’m white, but it demeans I find.
Also, I call people on their bullshit race stuff. I have a co worker and he was going on about such and such group being lazy and I was like dude that’s not true, base it on an individual and not their race. And this person is Italian so I could use a list of things people said about Italians back in the day.
The same person does make sexist comments at times, like oh a man can’t do that anymore blah blah or this woman gets away with everything. It’s like dude...
Now I’ve never seen them act sexist or racist to any individuals as they’re a good worker and genuinely nice.
So I call people out on their prejudices, and when I describe a person their colour, orientation play no role in how they’re mentioned.
This is how I was raised. I don't pay attention to things like race/teligion/sexual orientation unless something happens that forces me to take notice. I think most people are that way. Like many things, I think this is a situation where the few are fucking it up for the rest of us.
Re: Racial Discussion
Inner city schools (logically thinking) aren't as well funded as suburban schools.
This is a big topic in Chicago because the city is so segregated.
This reminds me of a couple months of my life in 1982.
The summer of 1982 was spent in Texas and then Arkansas. We moved back to Cali just in time for school.
Instead of staying at my grandma's house until we could find a decent place, we moved to this one bedroom dump(me, my mom & dad). Started school a couple days later.
7 year old me was in a state of shock. I was one of the only white kids at this school. I didn't fit in and that's putting it mildly.
On top of that, the school itself sucked. Trash everywhere, it needed a paint job for starters, the teachers were terrible, etc
It was hell on Earth. I also couldn't play outside when it got dark.
We moved and things went back to normal.
It was when I was older that I realized it was like that because it was the west side of Modesto.... literally the worst area of town and one of the worst in the entire central valley.
It also brings up questions mentioned in this thread....
WHY does it have to be like that? Why are other schools in this district amazing (and clean) yet this one is left to rot? Why isn't the trash being picked up....such a simple task.
Why is the crime rate in these neighborhoods so horrific? I don't buy the poor excuse. There's countless millions of poor white people. I've lived in many poor neighborhoods....none of them compare to the west side.
Questions like that have to be answered before any of this stuff can improve.
Re: Racial Discussion
Inner city schools (logically thinking) aren't as well funded as suburban schools.
This is a big topic in Chicago because the city is so segregated.
This reminds me of a couple months of my life in 1982.
The summer of 1982 was spent in Texas and then Arkansas. We moved back to Cali just in time for school.
Instead of staying at my grandma's house until we could find a decent place, we moved to this one bedroom dump(me, my mom & dad). Started school a couple days later.
7 year old me was in a state of shock. I was one of the only white kids at this school. I didn't fit in and that's putting it mildly.
On top of that, the school itself sucked. Trash everywhere, it needed a paint job for starters, the teachers were terrible, etc
It was hell on Earth. I also couldn't play outside when it got dark.
We moved and things went back to normal.
It was when I was older that I realized it was like that because it was the west side of Modesto.... literally the worst area of town and one of the worst in the entire central valley.
It also brings up questions mentioned in this thread....
WHY does it have to be like that? Why are other schools in this district amazing (and clean) yet this one is left to rot? Why isn't the trash being picked up....such a simple task.
Why is the crime rate in these neighborhoods so horrific? I don't buy the poor excuse. There's countless millions of poor white people. I've lived in many poor neighborhoods....none of them compare to the west side.
Questions like that have to be answered before any of this stuff can improve.
The problem is (this is going to sound familiar) you have the extreme on one end that has no interest in solving it because they don't give a damn and you have the extreme at the other end that has no interest in solving it because it is their whole identity. None of the things going on today are about solving anything; they are about making sure things don't change.
