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- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: US Politics Thread
I posted this on facebook earlier in the week, and thought it was applicable here too:
So, I had some thoughts I wanted to share related to Trump removing protesters from the White House area. If that’s not your thing, or you couldn’t care less what I think, keep scrolling. My news feed has recently been filled with Dodo videos of abandoned animals being rescued, and I find them adorable, so please check that out.
On Topic: I think this event is something every American should consider. I’m not going to address George Floyd or the activities of the protest other than to establish them as an obvious backdrop to what occurred Monday. What happened was wrong, and I fully support all 4 officers being charged with or as accessories to 2nd degree murder. So, let’s establish exactly what happened. American citizens were exercising their 1st Amendment rights in the vicinity around the White House. I can’t think of anything more symbolic and representative of the 1st Amendment, than screaming “FUCK YOU” at the gate of the White House. Try that in Beijing, Tehran, Moscow and even some European countries, and you won’t be happy with the results. A lot of people are paying lip service to 1st Amendment, but I honestly believe in what it represents, and specifically what it says. I don’t believe in “Hate Speech” laws, or even the concept of hate speech. The concept of free expression isn’t compatible with subjective limits. Libel and slander notwithstanding, it’s free game. Just don’t expect immunity from ridicule and condemnation – no one is obligated to be nice to you.
People exercising their 1st Amendment right were forcefully removed from the White House area so that President Trump could walk to a photo opportunity. That’s what it was - a photo opportunity. I’ve heard that narrative that Trump was showing force to prevent future riot like behavior, but he didn’t clear the protesters at that moment to prevent property damage or ensure the integrity of the White House. He cleared them because there was no way for the President of the United States to safely walk outside with thousands of people in throwing distance. He chose to end the most sacred American right of hundreds if not thousands of peaceful protesters, so he could walk safely and appear tough on television. That’s what happened, and no amount of spin changes that reality.
Reports in the media differ on level of force, but everyone seems to agree that flash bangs and smoke grenades were used. Even if the claims of rubber bullets and tear gas are true, it doesn’t change the underlying reality that the President of the United States used force to end a Constitutionally protected right. Nothing you can say about the nature of some of the protesters negates that the President ended a lawful protest so he could appear strong in front of his supporters, because dickheads in the media found it funny the President went to the panic room when hundreds of people violently tried to storm the White House. If he stood in the Rose Garden with an M-16, the same talking heads would have criticized him. Trump violated the 1st Amendment rights of hundreds of Americans so he could smirk at Anderson Cooper.
Those already Anti-Trump agree with me, or like that a “Republican” is publicly condemning Trump. But this is for those of you trying to perform the mental gymnastics to justify Trump’s actions. To that I ask you to engage in a mental exercise with me. Imagine it’s March 2021, and Biden is the President. Democrats have taken the Senate, and the first thing the Democratic congress and President do is pass a sweeping assault weapons ban. You can fill in the details, but anything would piss you off, so be creative. Thousands of peaceful 2nd Amendment activist storm the National Mall. Hundreds gather outside the White House with AR-15s slung over their backs as is often the case. It’s made clear that no violence is allowed, but you’re here to make it known that you find this new law an affront to the Constitution, and you’re angry and want change. We’ll even grant that no single person out of thousands does anything inappropriate. Though if 15 idiots smacked up someone, I’m sure you wouldn’t find their actions representative of you and the movement. You’d probably even advocate that they be punished for their actions. But despite the peaceful protest, President Biden marches from the West Wing to show that he understands many Americans are lawful gun owners, but he won’t be surrounded by armed hostiles and wants to really stick it to Sean Hannity on prime time. AG Harris orders the secret service and FBI to launch flash bangs and smoke grenades into the crowd to clear a path. Alex Jones and Twitter are full of reports of tear gas and rubber bullets.
What would the NRA and Fox News say? For folks that carry a “Don’t Tread on Me” flag, I can’t imagine such actions being received well. So, if in this mental exercise you find yourself living out your fantasies of Red Dawn or Rambo, you must reconcile that to what happened Monday. At least acknowledge it.
If you have information that is superior to mine, please share. But I ask that you attempt to justify the President of the United States intentionally violating the 1st Amendment right of American citizens. And in the future when you accuse someone of violating the Constitution, remember what occurred on June 1st, 2020 and your feelings about that.
Re: US Politics Thread
IRISH OS1R1S wrote:Completely disagree with comparing what happened to that man and what happens during war. Even if someone is breaking a curfew they still have rights and cops have no right to assault a man unless he is resisting or a threat and that was assault regardless if he tripped after.
Your other post regarding the media, yep they hold the blame for a lot of the feelings held by citizens. I don't watch much American news, but have been watching cnn and fox recently. My god they spend more time attacking each other than actually giving us the news. It's crazy.
You don't think Iraq planted seeds of distrust? I can say over this side of the pond it had a huge effect on opinions towards the US government.
Tony Blair was fully on board with Iraq, so if UK members solely blame America, they need to do some soul searching. But to answer your question, no. Plenty of Americans believe JFK wasn't killed by Oswald, LBJ and the gulf of tonkin, we didn't land on the moon, Nixon and watergate, Reagan created aids and the crack epidemic, Clinton and his numerous scandals, Bush and Iraq, Obama's numerous scandals (saying he didn't have scandals doesn't make it true) to include what we now know about FBI behavior related to Russia and Clinton, and everything Trump has done, are all icing on the cake and equally important. The reality is the American left wing has become more and more radical, abandoning reason. Republicans have mostly been anti-abortion, but Democrats have continued to march leftward. 10 years ago everyone agreed illegal immigrants shouldn't be allowed to enter the nation and stay, but somehow that position moved and if you disagree it's racist. Biden passed one of the toughest crime bills in American history, and all the mainstream candidates save Warren and Sanders have substantial records showing their "touch on crime" credentials, to include Klobuchar and Harris. American media is in open revolt against the current occupant of the White House and rushes to put stories forward that push that narrative. Fox News is just as bad, but compared to every other large outlet, it's not even a close comparison. These platforms have a near monopoly on information, and if they're pushing an agenda instead of reporting the facts (front page of yahoo today is trying to blame the riots on White Supremacist), reasonably informed people are going to hold their claims as suspect.
Why are you still denying white supremacists are involved? It takes away your credibility.
I'd also like to add that blaming the left for marching leftward while we currently sit as far right as we've ever stood in American politics is a peculiar assessment.
- IRISH OS1R1S
- Rep: 59
Re: US Politics Thread
IRISH OS1R1S wrote:Completely disagree with comparing what happened to that man and what happens during war. Even if someone is breaking a curfew they still have rights and cops have no right to assault a man unless he is resisting or a threat and that was assault regardless if he tripped after.
Your other post regarding the media, yep they hold the blame for a lot of the feelings held by citizens. I don't watch much American news, but have been watching cnn and fox recently. My god they spend more time attacking each other than actually giving us the news. It's crazy.
You don't think Iraq planted seeds of distrust? I can say over this side of the pond it had a huge effect on opinions towards the US government.
Tony Blair was fully on board with Iraq, so if UK members solely blame America, they need to do some soul searching. But to answer your question, no. Plenty of Americans believe JFK wasn't killed by Oswald, LBJ and the gulf of tonkin, we didn't land on the moon, Nixon and watergate, Reagan created aids and the crack epidemic, Clinton and his numerous scandals, Bush and Iraq, Obama's numerous scandals (saying he didn't have scandals doesn't make it true) to include what we now know about FBI behavior related to Russia and Clinton, and everything Trump has done, are all icing on the cake and equally important. The reality is the American left wing has become more and more radical, abandoning reason. Republicans have mostly been anti-abortion, but Democrats have continued to march leftward. 10 years ago everyone agreed illegal immigrants shouldn't be allowed to enter the nation and stay, but somehow that position moved and if you disagree it's racist. Biden passed one of the toughest crime bills in American history, and all the mainstream candidates save Warren and Sanders have substantial records showing their "touch on crime" credentials, to include Klobuchar and Harris. American media is in open revolt against the current occupant of the White House and rushes to put stories forward that push that narrative. Fox News is just as bad, but compared to every other large outlet, it's not even a close comparison. These platforms have a near monopoly on information, and if they're pushing an agenda instead of reporting the facts (front page of yahoo today is trying to blame the riots on White Supremacist), reasonably informed people are going to hold their claims as suspect.
No doubt all those points are valid and I'm sure they contribute, but I think you are downplaying the effect Iraq had. The worlds opinion drastically changed after that imo. It must have had a similar impact on some Americans no?
Agree with the British comment. Just to clarify Ireland is not part of the UK. We are a republic, independent.
Re: US Politics Thread
Randall Flagg wrote:IRISH OS1R1S wrote:Completely disagree with comparing what happened to that man and what happens during war. Even if someone is breaking a curfew they still have rights and cops have no right to assault a man unless he is resisting or a threat and that was assault regardless if he tripped after.
Your other post regarding the media, yep they hold the blame for a lot of the feelings held by citizens. I don't watch much American news, but have been watching cnn and fox recently. My god they spend more time attacking each other than actually giving us the news. It's crazy.
You don't think Iraq planted seeds of distrust? I can say over this side of the pond it had a huge effect on opinions towards the US government.
Tony Blair was fully on board with Iraq, so if UK members solely blame America, they need to do some soul searching. But to answer your question, no. Plenty of Americans believe JFK wasn't killed by Oswald, LBJ and the gulf of tonkin, we didn't land on the moon, Nixon and watergate, Reagan created aids and the crack epidemic, Clinton and his numerous scandals, Bush and Iraq, Obama's numerous scandals (saying he didn't have scandals doesn't make it true) to include what we now know about FBI behavior related to Russia and Clinton, and everything Trump has done, are all icing on the cake and equally important. The reality is the American left wing has become more and more radical, abandoning reason. Republicans have mostly been anti-abortion, but Democrats have continued to march leftward. 10 years ago everyone agreed illegal immigrants shouldn't be allowed to enter the nation and stay, but somehow that position moved and if you disagree it's racist. Biden passed one of the toughest crime bills in American history, and all the mainstream candidates save Warren and Sanders have substantial records showing their "touch on crime" credentials, to include Klobuchar and Harris. American media is in open revolt against the current occupant of the White House and rushes to put stories forward that push that narrative. Fox News is just as bad, but compared to every other large outlet, it's not even a close comparison. These platforms have a near monopoly on information, and if they're pushing an agenda instead of reporting the facts (front page of yahoo today is trying to blame the riots on White Supremacist), reasonably informed people are going to hold their claims as suspect.
No doubt all those points are valid and I'm sure they contribute, but I think you are downplaying the effect Iraq had. The worlds opinion drastically changed after that imo. It must have had a similar impact on some Americans no?
Agree with the British comment. Just to clarify Ireland is not part of the UK. We are a republic, independent.
Yes...i agree...And the fact that we’re still there and there really still is no clear objective really bothers me.
The reasons for going there and the objectives are still unknown to this day.
The massive military needs reasons to justify why it takes up 50-60 percent of the US federal budget. They do this by creating conflicts wherever they can.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: US Politics Thread
The US military doesn't take up 50-60% of the budget. Jesus Christ......
Re: US Politics Thread
IRISH OS1R1S wrote:Randall Flagg wrote:Tony Blair was fully on board with Iraq, so if UK members solely blame America, they need to do some soul searching. But to answer your question, no. Plenty of Americans believe JFK wasn't killed by Oswald, LBJ and the gulf of tonkin, we didn't land on the moon, Nixon and watergate, Reagan created aids and the crack epidemic, Clinton and his numerous scandals, Bush and Iraq, Obama's numerous scandals (saying he didn't have scandals doesn't make it true) to include what we now know about FBI behavior related to Russia and Clinton, and everything Trump has done, are all icing on the cake and equally important. The reality is the American left wing has become more and more radical, abandoning reason. Republicans have mostly been anti-abortion, but Democrats have continued to march leftward. 10 years ago everyone agreed illegal immigrants shouldn't be allowed to enter the nation and stay, but somehow that position moved and if you disagree it's racist. Biden passed one of the toughest crime bills in American history, and all the mainstream candidates save Warren and Sanders have substantial records showing their "touch on crime" credentials, to include Klobuchar and Harris. American media is in open revolt against the current occupant of the White House and rushes to put stories forward that push that narrative. Fox News is just as bad, but compared to every other large outlet, it's not even a close comparison. These platforms have a near monopoly on information, and if they're pushing an agenda instead of reporting the facts (front page of yahoo today is trying to blame the riots on White Supremacist), reasonably informed people are going to hold their claims as suspect.
No doubt all those points are valid and I'm sure they contribute, but I think you are downplaying the effect Iraq had. The worlds opinion drastically changed after that imo. It must have had a similar impact on some Americans no?
Agree with the British comment. Just to clarify Ireland is not part of the UK. We are a republic, independent.
Yes...i agree...And the fact that we’re still there and there really still is no clear objective really bothers me.
The reasons for going there and the objectives are still unknown to this day.
The massive military needs reasons to justify why it takes up 50-60 percent of the US federal budget. They do this by creating conflicts wherever they can.
Why didn't your boy Obama just pull everyone? Was he only interested in conflict as well?
- IRISH OS1R1S
- Rep: 59
Re: US Politics Thread
Jesus wtf.
https://twitter.com/jpegjoshua/status/1268719321662001164?s=20
[/embed]
Further update: Two officers have been fired over the incident.
- A Private Eye
- Rep: 77
Re: US Politics Thread
I'd also like to add that blaming the left for marching leftward while we currently sit as far right as we've ever stood in American politics is a peculiar assessment.
Do you think?
Do you not think Trumps presidency is a symptom of the mainstream left having already headed too far left more most people?
Re: US Politics Thread
This obviously varies from year to year...and it's not always this extreme but at times it is...
