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- IRISH OS1R1S
- Rep: 59
Re: US Politics Thread
Not on a laptop so this won't be a long post, but what was the straw that broke the camel's back in US politics? The more I think about it (some "friends" were discussing on FB), the more I think it was the Clinton impeachment.
The Iraq war possibly? After the whole wmd fiasco I feel it created division and major trust issues between the citizens and government. I feel attitudes towards America changed in not just American, but the world.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: US Politics Thread
Twitter is indeed a cesspool and research is advised on any tweet/article (same goes for most online sources) . Fuck I don't even believe half of what's on news channels.
I hope that man sues, that was disgusting. No need to treat people like that unless they are being violent or a threat.
The problem is they're going to call his advancement a threat. I wouldn't be threatened by an old man, but I wouldn't be threatened by a child or small woman either. But as someone who was in Iraq during the surge, I know people are capable of using those biases to their advantage and plenty of women and children were suicide bombers because people are less likely to perceive them as a threat.
The idea that anyone can ignore police instructions and not suffer the consequences for it needs to end. I think the old man stumbled over his feet more than he was pushed to the ground, and the use of force should absolutely be evaluated. But if police tell you to disperse, and you not only ignore them but walk up to them, you can't feign surprise when they respond.
Now that Democratic politicians are posting on Twitter to defund the police, they've completely left the farm. What rioters did in every major american city can't be condoned or tolerated. I'm outraged at what Trump did Monday, but we can't forget or overlook the damage and violence that was caused because big cities refused to protect their citizens and businesses. When people are left to loot and destroy stores for 15-24 hours, our leaders have broken the social contract. If ever there was justification for personal firearm ownership, the past 7 days have proven it.
But people don't get to dehumanize police officers and treat them as objects for their irrational fury, anymore than police officers get to dehumanize suspects and inflict harm on them without consequence. More police officers have been killed and harmed than unarmed black people.
2 black men were shot in Pittsburgh yesterday, and one died. Yet at the 1000 person protest yesterday, no one mentioned the name of the black man who had died just hours earlier. It makes me wonder if they really care about black lives, or just the opportunity to appear woke.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: US Politics Thread
buzzsaw wrote:Not on a laptop so this won't be a long post, but what was the straw that broke the camel's back in US politics? The more I think about it (some "friends" were discussing on FB), the more I think it was the Clinton impeachment.
The Iraq war possibly? After the whole wmd fiasco I feel it created division and major trust issues between the citizens and government. I feel attitudes towards America changed in not just American, but the world.
Nah, the utter disappearance of the anti-war movement the moment Obama was sworn in negates that. It's the American media, they control the narrative. They just had Al Sharpton in syndication, and want to pretend they're objective purveyors of information.
Re: US Politics Thread
IRISH OS1R1S wrote:buzzsaw wrote:Not on a laptop so this won't be a long post, but what was the straw that broke the camel's back in US politics? The more I think about it (some "friends" were discussing on FB), the more I think it was the Clinton impeachment.
The Iraq war possibly? After the whole wmd fiasco I feel it created division and major trust issues between the citizens and government. I feel attitudes towards America changed in not just American, but the world.
Nah, the utter disappearance of the anti-war movement the moment Obama was sworn in negates that. It's the American media, they control the narrative. They just had Al Sharpton in syndication, and want to pretend they're objective purveyors of information.
I'm pretty sick of people blaming the media...pretty sure the consumers of that media are just as to blame.
I've seen you post often on here about don't trust the MSM then you post articles from the MSM to defend your stances. It's a tired and old argument to blame the media...the consumers of that media are who to blame most.
- IRISH OS1R1S
- Rep: 59
Re: US Politics Thread
Completely disagree with comparing what happened to that man and what happens during war. Even if someone is breaking a curfew they still have rights and cops have no right to assault a man unless he is resisting or a threat and that was assault regardless if he tripped after.
Your other post regarding the media, yep they hold the blame for a lot of the feelings held by citizens. I don't watch much American news, but have been watching cnn and fox recently. My god they spend more time attacking each other than actually giving us the news. It's crazy.
You don't think Iraq planted seeds of distrust? I can say over this side of the pond it had a huge effect on opinions towards the US government.
Re: US Politics Thread
Completely disagree with comparing what happened to that man and what happens during war. Even if someone is breaking a curfew they still have rights and cops have no right to assault a man unless he is resisting or a threat and that was assault regardless if he tripped after.
Here's where some context matters. I don't have the numbers to prove it, but I believe more and more of our police force is former military. They are conditioned differently and when it's life and death, you ask questions later. I would imagine it's very hard to turn that mentality off. I'm not at all saying it's right, and I'm definitely not excusing what happened in that situation, but I do think it's some of the problem.
Cops get paid next to nothing for risking their lives. The only other place I can think of where that happens is the military.
- IRISH OS1R1S
- Rep: 59
Re: US Politics Thread
IRISH OS1R1S wrote:Completely disagree with comparing what happened to that man and what happens during war. Even if someone is breaking a curfew they still have rights and cops have no right to assault a man unless he is resisting or a threat and that was assault regardless if he tripped after.
Here's where some context matters. I don't have the numbers to prove it, but I believe more and more of our police force is former military. They are conditioned differently and when it's life and death, you ask questions later. I would imagine it's very hard to turn that mentality off. I'm not at all saying it's right, and I'm definitely not excusing what happened in that situation, but I do think it's some of the problem.
Cops get paid next to nothing for risking their lives. The only other place I can think of where that happens is the military.
I believe police training is rather short too? May also be a contributing factor.
Re: US Politics Thread
Completely disagree with comparing what happened to that man and what happens during war. Even if someone is breaking a curfew they still have rights and cops have no right to assault a man unless he is resisting or a threat and that was assault regardless if he tripped after.
Your other post regarding the media, yep they hold the blame for a lot of the feelings held by citizens. I don't watch much American news, but have been watching cnn and fox recently. My god they spend more time attacking each other than actually giving us the news. It's crazy.
You don't think Iraq planted seeds of distrust? I can say over this side of the pond it had a huge effect on opinions towards the US government.
I do...
But i also think that those that served in that war struggle to reconcile their participation in it.
In an all voluntary army...when you choose to serve in times of war, you’re making a statement.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: US Politics Thread
Completely disagree with comparing what happened to that man and what happens during war. Even if someone is breaking a curfew they still have rights and cops have no right to assault a man unless he is resisting or a threat and that was assault regardless if he tripped after.
Your other post regarding the media, yep they hold the blame for a lot of the feelings held by citizens. I don't watch much American news, but have been watching cnn and fox recently. My god they spend more time attacking each other than actually giving us the news. It's crazy.
You don't think Iraq planted seeds of distrust? I can say over this side of the pond it had a huge effect on opinions towards the US government.
Tony Blair was fully on board with Iraq, so if UK members solely blame America, they need to do some soul searching. But to answer your question, no. Plenty of Americans believe JFK wasn't killed by Oswald, LBJ and the gulf of tonkin, we didn't land on the moon, Nixon and watergate, Reagan created aids and the crack epidemic, Clinton and his numerous scandals, Bush and Iraq, Obama's numerous scandals (saying he didn't have scandals doesn't make it true) to include what we now know about FBI behavior related to Russia and Clinton, and everything Trump has done, are all icing on the cake and equally important. The reality is the American left wing has become more and more radical, abandoning reason. Republicans have mostly been anti-abortion, but Democrats have continued to march leftward. 10 years ago everyone agreed illegal immigrants shouldn't be allowed to enter the nation and stay, but somehow that position moved and if you disagree it's racist. Biden passed one of the toughest crime bills in American history, and all the mainstream candidates save Warren and Sanders have substantial records showing their "touch on crime" credentials, to include Klobuchar and Harris. American media is in open revolt against the current occupant of the White House and rushes to put stories forward that push that narrative. Fox News is just as bad, but compared to every other large outlet, it's not even a close comparison. These platforms have a near monopoly on information, and if they're pushing an agenda instead of reporting the facts (front page of yahoo today is trying to blame the riots on White Supremacist), reasonably informed people are going to hold their claims as suspect.
Re: US Politics Thread
buzzsaw wrote:Not on a laptop so this won't be a long post, but what was the straw that broke the camel's back in US politics? The more I think about it (some "friends" were discussing on FB), the more I think it was the Clinton impeachment.
I think the economic policies under Reagan is where it really begins. That's when the system threw most overboard. I know he is heralded as a conservative hero...hell, I'll admit...he was witty and very articulate. But that's when the whole system started getting skewed. I think that's where the conservative 'tough guy' act started.
It's also where Republicans got this idea that running up massive deficits and cutting taxes at the same time was sound fiscal policy.
People ate that up though. Bush Sr lost (in my mind at least) because he promised no new taxes, realized that wasn't an option and lost because he raised taxes. Kind of like Obama promised to get out of the Middle East, then realized that wasn't possible. Sometimes things sound better than they actually are. If it came from a politician, it's almost certainly the case.
If you go back and look, every time the party holding the presidency lost, it was because something happened; not because the other side earned it. This is extremely simplified and 100% from memory (which could be wrong):
Carter - Iran
Bush Sr - no new taxes
Clinton - well...I actually liked him for the most part but obviously he had some issues
Bush Jr - Middle East burnout
Obama - healthcare (and an equally bad Democratic nominee).
Trump - he's his own worst enemy...if he could keep his mouth shut he'd have won in a landslide...now he could lose to a candidate with diminished mental capacity
How in the world can we not do better than Trump, Clinton, and now Biden? I mean seriously. Obama for his faults (and he did have some) was at least Presidential.
