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Re: Covid 19
Big cities alone, consider this, millions of people take the train & bus to & from work each day. Those people, many younger, will goto their office and work alongside co-workers. Some of whom are older. So if you're 60 years old, do you really want to work in an office with a hundred people taking the bus & train each day? I heard one company may not re-open until that is figured out.
Or let's say restaurant or bartender? Or young people, working retail, who live at home, passing it onto their parents.
Re: Covid 19
buzzsaw wrote:PaSnow wrote:What if the death rate drops significantly as it gets hot out? Like, hot hot. Then, what if a vaccine is crafted in September or October? You're idea of letting a million folks just die will like awfully amatuerish.
What million folks? In what country are a million folks going to die? You have no credibility when you make shit up. Ask a question that has something behind it other than your weak principles.
For Christ's sake read about immunology and how it works.
72,000 have died. Likely, 150,000 will, possibly 200,000. That is WITH a massive shutdown. If we had not implemented the shutdown, easily 500K die, very possibly a million.
You don't know that...you're just making things up again.
I (like Flagg) have been an active participant in the shutdown. My wife is diabetic and no matter how little I believe it is accomplishing, I am following the guidelines to protect her. There is no evidence that the lockdown accomplished anything. None. We're finding out more and more that the virus has been around and spread long before we even knew what it was. It's out there. It's been out there. People have it and until there's a vaccine (which there may never be) people are going to get it. Again, I BEG you to read up on immunology...how it works and what it does. If you really want this to end, that's the path you'll follow.
Re: Covid 19
Big cities alone, consider this, millions of people take the train & bus to & from work each day. Those people, many younger, will goto their office and work alongside co-workers. Some of whom are older. So if you're 60 years old, do you really want to work in an office with a hundred people taking the bus & train each day? I heard one company may not re-open until that is figured out.
Now see? Here you actually have a point. Had you bothered to answer my question about NY in the post that started your video downfall, we could have had this discussion. What's the logical next step? Is it possible that the answer of how to handle this isn't the same in NYC as it is in some random rural town?
Or let's say restaurant or bartender? Or young people, working retail, who live at home, passing it onto their parents.
Now in this case, young people will be fine and most young people's parents will be fine. If they are smart young people and parents, they aren't visiting anyone elderly or with a chronic condition, so this activity is actually helping develop the herd immunity we need to eventually get out of this. It's good to see you're starting to think more critically about this.
Re: Covid 19
This is why I can't do this often. I come in here, make 1 post asking to see a video, and end up answering 15 different questions for another 24 hours.
You're not still taking buzz and his "just because you didn't drive home drunk doesn't mean you stopped yourself from getting into an accident therefore driving drunk is safe" bit serious are you? Ignore him.
Re: Covid 19
Sweden's COVID-19 Death Toll 'Horrifying,' Says Scientist
Soo Kim 2 hrs ago
Newsweek logoSweden's COVID-19 Death Toll 'Horrifying,' Says Scientist
Cases of the novel coronavirus in Sweden have reached at least 23,918, with its death count at 2,941, as of Thursday, according to the latest figures from the country's health ministry.
"We are starting to near 3,000 deceased, a horrifyingly large number," noted the chief epidemiologist at Sweden's public health agency, Anders Tegnell, at a press conference on Wednesday.
Tegnell, who has been leading the country's COVID-19 response and previously defended the nation's decision not to impose a lockdown, this week admitted he was "not convinced" the unconventional anti-lockdown strategy was the best option to take.
Click to expand
"I'm not convinced at all - we are constantly thinking about this," Tegnell told Aftonbladet, the Swedish newspaper based in the capital Stockholm.
A child less than 10 years old, who had been in intensive care, was reported to be among the latest fatalities. But it has yet to be confirmed whether the child died from the SARS-CoV-2 virus.
Tegnell told Aftonbladet the virus posed a minimal risk to children. He reportedly claimed there are nearly no cases among children globally, claiming that those who died following infection had severe underlying health conditions.
Contrary to Tegnell's claim, while there are fewer confirmed cases among under-18s, there have been several cases among children, including in Sweden. At least 118 confirmed infections among those aged 9 or younger and at least 282 confirmed cases among those aged between 10 and 19 have been reported in Sweden, as of Thursday.
Last month, a number of children in the United Kingdom with no underlying conditions were reported to have died from a rare inflammatory syndrome which researchers believe was linked to the disease, Reuters reported.
Medical experts in Italy and the U.K. were also said to be investigating a possible link between the virus and cases of severe inflammatory disease among infants arriving in hospital with high fevers and swollen arteries, Reuters reported.
Sweden has, by far, the largest number of cases and fatalities in Scandinavia, compared with its neighbors Denmark, Norway and Finland, which each have 10,281, 7,996 and 5,573 confirmed cases, respectively, according to the latest figures from Johns Hopkins University.
The daily death toll for Sweden is projected to reach potentially as high as nearly 150 by May 11, while up to 1,060 deaths have been projected for this week, according to the latest projection model by the Imperial College COVID-19 Response Team. The team consists of Imperial College London, the WHO (World Health Organization) Collaborating Centre for Infectious Disease Modelling within the MRC Centre for Global Infectious Disease Analysis and J-IDEA (Abdul Latif Jameel Institute for Disease and Emergency Analytics).
Yet Sweden is the only infected European country to not issue a strict lockdown, a strategy which aimed to develop "herd immunity" by increasing the number of people exposed to the virus in a bid to avoid a second wave of cases.
But the move has come under criticism by other countries as well as within the nation.
Speaking to Newsweek, a 33-year-old mother based in the city of Lund in southern Sweden, Allyson Plumberg, said: "I don't think the Swedish response has been adequate. No recommendations for face mask usage in elder care homes (where the bulk of deaths have occurred)," in an email interview.
She added: "Even children with pre-existing medical conditions are not officially considered at-risk for COVID19. It is now well-known that children can become very ill (and even die in rare circumstances) from COVID-19, even without pre-existing conditions. There is still a mandatory school attendance (ages 6-15) for healthy children in Sweden.
"This means healthy teachers are also pressured to continue showing up in the classroom. We now see that teachers have died, and households with in-risk members are more desperate than ever to protect the health of their families.
"Overall, it seems like Sweden avoids adherence to the precautionary principle whenever possible," she said.
Newsweek has contacted Sweden's Ministry of Education as well as the Ministry of Health and Social Affairs for a comment.
Current restrictions in Sweden following the outbreak include a ban on gatherings of more than 50 people, while residents have been told to avoid unnecessary travel and contact with elderly people. But they are allowed to visit restaurants, bars, cafes and nightclubs, which have reportedly been told to offer seated table service only.
High schools and universities are closed and their courses are being taught online but schools for those under 16 remain open. The government advocates working from home, where possible.
Last month the government warned it would be shutting down any restaurants and bars that do not follow precautionary guidelines issued to prevent an outbreak of cases, Reuters reported.
Sweden's Minister for Home Affairs, Mikael Damberg, said: "As the sun begins to shine, we are beginning to see some worrying reports of open-air restaurants full of customers, of places packed with people, and we have to take this seriously," at a press conference.
"I don't want to see any full open-air restaurants in Stockholm or anywhere else. Otherwise, businesses will be closed," he added.
Cecilia Soderberg-Naucler, a professor of microbial pathogenesis at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden, has also previously raised concerns over Sweden's radical strategy. She is among the nearly 2,300 academics who in March signed an open letter to the government urging implement stronger measures to protect the country's health care system from being overwhelmed.
"We must establish control over the situation, we cannot head into a situation where we get complete chaos. No one has tried this route [of not imposing a lockdown], so why should we test it first in Sweden, without informed consent?" she told Reuters last month.
A professor of genetic epidemiology at Sweden's Lund University, Paul Franks, told Newsweek last month: "A feature of the strategy that has not worked so well is protecting vulnerable populations, which is evident in the fact that SARS-CoV-2 has been detected in many care homes and hospital wards," he noted.
An article published on March 27 and co-written by Franks and Peter Nilsson, a professor of internal medicine-epidemiology at Lund University, noted "going forward, Sweden is likely to have to impose stricter restrictions depending on how the virus spreads, especially in metropolitan areas or when the healthcare system is under severe strain," the two authors said.
The novel coronavirus has spread to more than 3.7 million people across the globe. Over 264,100 have died following infection, while more than 1.2 million have reportedly recovered, according to the latest figures from Johns Hopkins University.
Re: Covid 19
This is why I can't do this often. I come in here, make 1 post asking to see a video, and end up answering 15 different questions for another 24 hours.
That happens because you spew bullshit when the video gets posted and if you've learned nothing over the years, it should be that I'm not just going to let that slide.
Re: Covid 19
Sweden's COVID-19 Death Toll 'Horrifying,' Says Scientist
Soo Kim 2 hrs agoNewsweek logoSweden's COVID-19 Death Toll 'Horrifying,' Says Scientist
Cases of the novel coronavirus in Sweden have reached at least 23,918, with its death count at 2,941, as of Thursday, according to the latest figures from the country's health ministry."We are starting to near 3,000 deceased, a horrifyingly large number," noted the chief epidemiologist at Sweden's public health agency, Anders Tegnell, at a press conference on Wednesday.
Tegnell, who has been leading the country's COVID-19 response and previously defended the nation's decision not to impose a lockdown, this week admitted he was "not convinced" the unconventional anti-lockdown strategy was the best option to take.
Click to expand
"I'm not convinced at all - we are constantly thinking about this," Tegnell told Aftonbladet, the Swedish newspaper based in the capital Stockholm.A child less than 10 years old, who had been in intensive care, was reported to be among the latest fatalities. But it has yet to be confirmed whether the child died from the SARS-CoV-2 virus.
Tegnell told Aftonbladet the virus posed a minimal risk to children. He reportedly claimed there are nearly no cases among children globally, claiming that those who died following infection had severe underlying health conditions.
Contrary to Tegnell's claim, while there are fewer confirmed cases among under-18s, there have been several cases among children, including in Sweden. At least 118 confirmed infections among those aged 9 or younger and at least 282 confirmed cases among those aged between 10 and 19 have been reported in Sweden, as of Thursday.
Last month, a number of children in the United Kingdom with no underlying conditions were reported to have died from a rare inflammatory syndrome which researchers believe was linked to the disease, Reuters reported.
Medical experts in Italy and the U.K. were also said to be investigating a possible link between the virus and cases of severe inflammatory disease among infants arriving in hospital with high fevers and swollen arteries, Reuters reported.
Sweden has, by far, the largest number of cases and fatalities in Scandinavia, compared with its neighbors Denmark, Norway and Finland, which each have 10,281, 7,996 and 5,573 confirmed cases, respectively, according to the latest figures from Johns Hopkins University.
The daily death toll for Sweden is projected to reach potentially as high as nearly 150 by May 11, while up to 1,060 deaths have been projected for this week, according to the latest projection model by the Imperial College COVID-19 Response Team. The team consists of Imperial College London, the WHO (World Health Organization) Collaborating Centre for Infectious Disease Modelling within the MRC Centre for Global Infectious Disease Analysis and J-IDEA (Abdul Latif Jameel Institute for Disease and Emergency Analytics).
Yet Sweden is the only infected European country to not issue a strict lockdown, a strategy which aimed to develop "herd immunity" by increasing the number of people exposed to the virus in a bid to avoid a second wave of cases.
But the move has come under criticism by other countries as well as within the nation.
Speaking to Newsweek, a 33-year-old mother based in the city of Lund in southern Sweden, Allyson Plumberg, said: "I don't think the Swedish response has been adequate. No recommendations for face mask usage in elder care homes (where the bulk of deaths have occurred)," in an email interview.
She added: "Even children with pre-existing medical conditions are not officially considered at-risk for COVID19. It is now well-known that children can become very ill (and even die in rare circumstances) from COVID-19, even without pre-existing conditions. There is still a mandatory school attendance (ages 6-15) for healthy children in Sweden.
"This means healthy teachers are also pressured to continue showing up in the classroom. We now see that teachers have died, and households with in-risk members are more desperate than ever to protect the health of their families.
"Overall, it seems like Sweden avoids adherence to the precautionary principle whenever possible," she said.
Newsweek has contacted Sweden's Ministry of Education as well as the Ministry of Health and Social Affairs for a comment.
Current restrictions in Sweden following the outbreak include a ban on gatherings of more than 50 people, while residents have been told to avoid unnecessary travel and contact with elderly people. But they are allowed to visit restaurants, bars, cafes and nightclubs, which have reportedly been told to offer seated table service only.
High schools and universities are closed and their courses are being taught online but schools for those under 16 remain open. The government advocates working from home, where possible.
Last month the government warned it would be shutting down any restaurants and bars that do not follow precautionary guidelines issued to prevent an outbreak of cases, Reuters reported.
Sweden's Minister for Home Affairs, Mikael Damberg, said: "As the sun begins to shine, we are beginning to see some worrying reports of open-air restaurants full of customers, of places packed with people, and we have to take this seriously," at a press conference.
"I don't want to see any full open-air restaurants in Stockholm or anywhere else. Otherwise, businesses will be closed," he added.
Cecilia Soderberg-Naucler, a professor of microbial pathogenesis at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden, has also previously raised concerns over Sweden's radical strategy. She is among the nearly 2,300 academics who in March signed an open letter to the government urging implement stronger measures to protect the country's health care system from being overwhelmed.
"We must establish control over the situation, we cannot head into a situation where we get complete chaos. No one has tried this route [of not imposing a lockdown], so why should we test it first in Sweden, without informed consent?" she told Reuters last month.
A professor of genetic epidemiology at Sweden's Lund University, Paul Franks, told Newsweek last month: "A feature of the strategy that has not worked so well is protecting vulnerable populations, which is evident in the fact that SARS-CoV-2 has been detected in many care homes and hospital wards," he noted.
An article published on March 27 and co-written by Franks and Peter Nilsson, a professor of internal medicine-epidemiology at Lund University, noted "going forward, Sweden is likely to have to impose stricter restrictions depending on how the virus spreads, especially in metropolitan areas or when the healthcare system is under severe strain," the two authors said.
The novel coronavirus has spread to more than 3.7 million people across the globe. Over 264,100 have died following infection, while more than 1.2 million have reportedly recovered, according to the latest figures from Johns Hopkins University.
Is this where I'm supposed to post to post an article that disagrees? I can do that, but you didn't seem to like the dance last time. You seem to think only your articles matter.
Re: Covid 19
Nope, wasn't directed at Dr. Buzz and his big imagination. Sweden was a topic here, just adding to the fact the guy who started the herd immunity idea is now saying he could have been wrong, and the fact they may need to start locking down anyway because, surprise surprise, people aren't following the rules. On top of that, even Sweden says this would not be a good idea for everyone, as they are a different culture with great healthcare and a much healthier population.
Re: Covid 19
Heard on a conference call yesterday of one of the biggest companies in America about easing people back to work is that the biggest worry is one person getting infected and having to quarantine everyone all over again. So a lot of folks are going to keep working from home.
