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Re: Buckmaster-Beltrami on Chinese Democracy
Not a bad point when you consider how rough The General intro sounded in 2002 compared to the "finished" intro in later years.
Then again TWAT and IRS were pretty much there in 1999.
Different eras. TWAT and IRS were crafted in around '98-'99 by Sean Beavan. He used the bits and pieces Axl had taken fondness into. Those bits were made during the 'midnight jams', which comprised of a loose group of players over the years. Filling the space for the principals, Paul and Dizzy, had been Krys Baratto / Billy Howerdel (bass) and Sid Riggs (drums).
Axl never promoted these people upwards. He just replaced them with players he wanted in Guns. Tommy was a big win. He anchored the sound and went on to provide stability (what, 16 years?) next to half a dozen guitar players. Tommy likely also worked a lot on arrangements. His title as 'musical director' may carry the notion that Tommy was making sure impartial ideas gelled into actual songs.
The Josh Freese / Robin -era saw through most of those songs, with vocals. They had around 30-35 tracks, enough to polish up and release. After they floundered to and fro for a year or so, Bob Ezrin still felt the album was lacking. He moved Guns from Rumbo to Village, for improved overseeing. Only he got kicked out, crazy drum rigs got installed on the attic and the rental bill went through the roof.
That's the event horizon for The General and other Bucket/Brain era songs. They should've been CD2, a new album by fresh people and clean slates. Another thing is that the orchestrations by Beltrami and Buckmaster were recorded, to some old and new songs, in this era. To me, they imply a shift in Axl's idea of the album sound.
The funny thing is, both of them seem to have gotten in after RTB and Zoot, with Axl as the producer. Now, imagine that. Axl calling all the shots. Means everything takes a bit more effort. 
Re: Buckmaster-Beltrami on Chinese Democracy
This one always throws me for a loop:
"The Robin Finck/Josh Freese/Tommy Stinson/Billy Howerdel/Dizzy Reed version of the album that existed in 1998 was pretty incredible. It still sounded like GNR but there were elements of Zeppelin, Nine Inch Nails and Pink Floyd mixed in." (James Barber, Poptones, 10/16/05)
It also begs the question of legality, especially considering the impression was that Axl was delegating to Paul Huge on these matters.
It'd be a liability nightmare.
Then again, this is the music industry.
Re: Buckmaster-Beltrami on Chinese Democracy
@apex-twin: I disagree a bit on this. in 98-99 the Shadow Company was no longer around and there was already a normal band - Tommy, Josh, and of course Robin. the timing doesn't match on those guys.
You're right, as far as we know, anyway. Those session guys were gradually phased out. Sid Riggs was still around in the so-called Shaq session in '97. When Tommy showed up in early '98, the primary band was pretty much complete.
Re: Buckmaster-Beltrami on Chinese Democracy
James wrote:what does this say about the status of Seven, Thyme, The General, and Leave Me Alone?
Leave Me Alone the working title for...?
http://www.gnrevolution.com/song.php?id=3107
Me, Myself and Elvis?
Which is supposed to be one of the tracks floating.
Re: Buckmaster-Beltrami on Chinese Democracy
what does this say about the status of Seven, Thyme, The General, and Leave Me Alone?
To answer that all in one, you've got it so far.
Thyme existed in Nov '00 and was designated to merge with P.R.L., which could be their N.I.B.
Me & My Elvis could've morphed into Elvis Presley and the Monster of Soul, Leave Me Alone and back to Soul Monster. Could those titles come from the lyrics, suggesting a "vade retro satana" line. Hard to say about any Elvis references. If so, Beavan track, and those go way back.
On Seven and The General, it's hard to say much aside rough mixes existed in October '02.
Re: Buckmaster-Beltrami on Chinese Democracy
I've been wondering about all these working titles, where they originate, and WHY. I mean.. obviously I know what a working title is but until CD, I never seen one song have multiple titles, and in some cases they appear to go back and forth.
It's odd.
It's why for years I had believed quick song was an initial working title for CD, based on the description of the song.
When Better leaked I thought it might be 2 songs melded into a more cohesive track. With Thyme melding into PRL, this might have been a regular occurrence as the project moved ahead.
100 + songs/fragments was reduced to 80...to 60....to 40.....
Edit
There's also a situation with....
Street of Dreams
Stardust
The Blues
With this track, we know of three specific versions:
The more up tempo version performed in 2001
The 2002 version
The neutured wannabe REO Speedwagon ballad it became in 2006 and on the album.
Maybe each version had it's own working title?
