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Re: Buckmaster-Beltrami on Chinese Democracy
Beltrami:
[GNR] was sort of just work for hire. [...] I met with Axl and he played me these songs, asked me my ideas about them, and I told him what I thought they needed. They gave me four songs to orchestrate. [...] A song called 'Seven,' which is the one [...] I actually wrote a guitar part [on]. There was one called 'Thyme,' one called 'The General,' one called 'Leave Me Alone.'" (Marco Beltrami, IGN, 07/20/03)
"Leave Me Alone," "Seven," and "The General" could also feature on the new album. These three A-listed songs were worked on by Marco Beltrami, especially "Seven," which Marco deems as the best of the three songs. It has also been reported that Marco worked on a fourth track, "Thyme." However, this song was not worked on subsequent to Marco's work in October 2002. (Jeff Leeds, Sp1at website, 06/05)
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Buckmaster:
"Paul Buckmaster, a British arranger [...] met Rose in July at LA's Village Recorder studio complex. 'Axl was supposed to be there at 3pm, but turned up at 5,' says Buckmaster. [...] 'Axl [had] recently returned from Malaysia or Indonesia. [...] He [...] ran me through four songs that he wanted to put strings over. [...] We'd be listening to a guitar part and he'd say, 'That's not nearly loud enough'. Anyone else would have said that it was the loudest guitar sound ever recorded.'" (The Times, 03/18/05)
"According to Buckmaster's official discography/list of credits, which can be viewed at this location, he has served as the arranger and conductor on the tracks 'Blues', 'TWAT', 'Madagascar' and 'Prostitute'." (Blabbermouth, 11/23/04)
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Chinese Democracy album credits:
Street of Dreams:
Paul Buckmaster - Orchestra
Marco Beltrami - Orchestra
There Was A Time:
Paul Buckmaster - Orchestra
Marco Beltrami - Orchestra
Madagascar:
Paul Buckmaster - Orchestra
Marco Beltrami - Orchestra
Prostitute:
Paul Buckmaster - Orchestra
Marco Beltrami - Orchestra
This I Love:
Marco Beltrami - Orchestra
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What happened? Were all his arrangements added to the songs Buckmaster had already worked on? Something doesn't add up. As most of you know, once the Rock Band files came out and fans started toying with the songs, there are practically entire songs themselves completely buried in the mix. Since both men worked on four separate songs each during their time on the project and both wound up appearing on the same four songs with TIL including Beltrami's work, what does this say about the status of Seven, Thyme, The General, and Leave Me Alone? Did the arrangements for those four songs wind up on the songs on Chinese Democracy? If not, when was Beltrami asked to come back for another session? Why wasn't Axl asked about this in the chats?
Re: Buckmaster-Beltrami on Chinese Democracy
Yeah, looks like they brought Marco in later to do more work. One quote I remember a LONG time ago is that he said he enjoyed it and would have liked to have played more of a role in the writing process, he brought up writing the guitar part.
Re: Buckmaster-Beltrami on Chinese Democracy
The credits on CD are full of errors, so that is an aspect to look at.
So, We can break this down into two questions.
Firstly, we ask the band if Beltrami being listed on the Buckmaster tracks is an error. Then we ask Beltrami, did he return later on to work on the songs that Buckmaster had worked on earlier?
Does that sound right before I do it?
--> I got someone else to ask the band the first question for now
Re: Buckmaster-Beltrami on Chinese Democracy
Yeah, looks like they brought Marco in later to do more work. One quote I remember a LONG time ago is that he said he enjoyed it and would have liked to have played more of a role in the writing process, he brought up writing the guitar part.
When did he come in? These guys listed working on these songs on their official sites. There were no mentions after that. I don't think he came back in at all.
There has been no mention of ANYONE coming in the past 10 years to work on the album(s). If memory serves me correctly, Patti Hood is the last person to go into a studio and work on the project. That was nine years ago. All we've heard since then a few times is DJ, Fortus, and whoever else playing around on something no one(especially Axl) was going to take seriously. We have that pic Axl and Pitman tweeted but no way of dating the pic.
So if they brought Beltrami in.....when? Why? For what songs? Why has he ignored it when he didn't ignore his contributions previously?
The credits on CD are full of errors, so that is an aspect to look at.
Yes they certainly are. The liner notes were embarrassing. Having said that, the actual credits were taken seriously. I remember Axl saying something about having Paul Huge help in that regard because he remembered everything. Would Axl or Huge seriously not remember that Buckmaster and Beltrami worked on entirely different songs at different times? Isn't it more logical to assume that some(or all) of Beltrami's contributions were added to those Buckmaster songs at some point? We've heard several times by people on the project they just kept adding layer after layer to the same batch of songs. Listen to the Rock band mixes. There's orchestral arrangements buried like dog whistles on the tracks that can now be heard thanks to Rock Band. If its not Beltrami's work, whose work is it?
Firstly, we ask the band if Beltrami being listed on the Buckmaster tracks is an error. Then we ask Beltrami, did he return later on to work on the songs that Buckmaster had worked on earlier?
I would love an answer to this. This is something that has been overlooked by fans for years. Something to remember about this long saga is that the studio aspect of it in the 00s was a very small part of the saga. The myth of Axl and the band hard at work 24/7/365 was deflated years ago. After the album came out we got several peaks behind the curtain, most recently by Fortus who said 90% of the work was done in 2001.
I don't think he came in later. This album was cut and paste through and through. Arrangements were likely lifted from certain tracks and added to others without his knowledge. He probably didn't care either way. He contributed to the project, did what was asked, and then was gone.
If the band or someone associated with GNR says its an error, end of discussion. Same as it ever was. Buckmaster tracks were released, Beltrami's full contributions to four tracks still sitting in the vault untouched praying for release. If not an error, then what I described is exactly what happened.
I need to listen to some of those Rock Band mixes again. Haven't heard them in years. I remember that one version of TIL was incredible. Musically it was bordering on a different song. Wasn't there a version of Prostitute with different orchestra placed higher in the mix?
Re: Buckmaster-Beltrami on Chinese Democracy
Nothing to really contribute but I enjoyed reading this James, good topic! 
@sp1at: Thanks for your posts lately, very cool insights you've offered in a lot of topics. You're the only insider whose opinion I don't immediately disregard as fabricated bullshit lol
Re: Buckmaster-Beltrami on Chinese Democracy
Nothing to really contribute but I enjoyed reading this James, good topic!
@sp1at: Thanks for your posts lately, very cool insights you've offered in a lot of topics. You're the only insider whose opinion I don't immediately disregard as fabricated bullshit lol
Thanks. I see no harm in trying to figure out if something is likely to happen or not, it's just a bit of fun.
I am still awaiting responses to both questions
- elevendayempire
- Rep: 96
Re: Buckmaster-Beltrami on Chinese Democracy
It might be one of those situations like writers' credits for movies – where people are credited for the script even though literally nothing from their original draft survives.
Re: Buckmaster-Beltrami on Chinese Democracy
It might be one of those situations like writers' credits for movies – where people are credited for the script even though literally nothing from their original draft survives.
Not a bad point when you consider how rough The General intro sounded in 2002 compared to the "finished" intro in later years.
Then again TWAT and IRS were pretty much there in 1999.
