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Re: Perfect Crime
Also, in 2001-2002 there was no YouTube. Back then, Axl could belt out a couple of new tracks as a teaser during live shows, and the only people who'd know about it were the audience and the hardest of the hardcore fans who traded soundboard recordings. YouTube (and other streaming media) changed all that; suddenly the live performances and leaked tracks were out there for the world to listen to.
A good point.
It was also a secondary market like Brazil. I mean, huge show, got tons of good press, but it's a little more mysterious cloak and dagger stuff.
The one thing about CD that was always weird though is they were a studio band who popped up on the road. It eschewed the old paradigm of playing your material live, testing it out, smoothing out the rough edges, and then going in the studio. I can't say it did Axl any favors.
I'm as guilty as anyone of being a downloading motherfucker (in fairness, there was no indication that Chinese Democracy was ever actually going to come out back then), but even I can see that one of the things that led to the album's muted initial response was that everyone who wanted to hear Chinese Democracy or Madagascar had already done so, via live performances and leaks.
Yeah, the leaks got a consistent amount of good publicity.
The most disappointing thing about the whole saga is that we basically have suped-up versions of 10 year old songs.
In a just world, we'd have 3 versions of each, all with different vocal takes throughout the years. We'd have helium vocals on one, the up-tempo version of The Blues, and the 10 minute version of There Was A Time with Josh Freese's drum solo outro.
I'm a huge CD fan even to this day but listening to the record for the first time I was like: Are you serious? Same vocal take? Nothing new? This mix?!! If he would've re-recorded it in a week with the 2006 band, it would've been a better album.
Sad times.
Re: Perfect Crime
I was listening to the UYI demos yesterday and one thing was striking, while we probably haven't been thinking about that way earlier: notice that we have quite a big bunch of UYI-era songs, mostly in instrumental versions, only rarely they include some vocals. and this is how Axl worked even back in the day - the band was rehearsing like hell, recording numerous instrumental demos, and then Ax comes and lays down some vocal track or two, rarely more than one actually. not talking about pre-UYI era stuff here (like Don't Cry, NR, BoB etc.) - those were older tracks with different genesis, I'm talking about songs that were new in 1989-90.
actually, we've been quite lucky that UYI even got finished and released.
Re: Perfect Crime
The big difference is the UYI demos started raw as fuck and then popped out basically what was the finished song sans the mix.
I mean go November Rain v1 to v3. It's a true sketch to well the finished deal.
The CD demos on the other hand are basically done. The rest was knob tweaking filibustering and a lot of questionable decisions.
Canter paints a similar picture in Reckless Road. Axl's frequent disappearances, Slash's living out of the studio, a lackadaisical work ethic by the whole crew, piece-meal song construction during the Hell Tour in 1986, and so forth.
- elevendayempire
- Rep: 96
Re: Perfect Crime
I'm a huge CD fan even to this day but listening to the record for the first time I was like: Are you serious? Same vocal take? Nothing new? This mix?!! If he would've re-recorded it in a week with the 2006 band, it would've been a better album.
On the other hand, this is why I'm utterly unbothered when people go "But we only have a five-year window before Axl's voice is out of commission they have to do an album NOW". Because if/when they do an album, it'll probably use the Chinese Democracy II vocal tracks, which were recorded – in some cases – back in 1999.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Perfect Crime
Also, in 2001-2002 there was no YouTube.
I agree.
But then I think we only really think that would matter because we've all become so accustomed to psychological paranoid secrecy head-fuck that is the way GNR has done things for decades.
Other big acts - for example Metallica - will premiere new songs live before the studio release.
It doesn't have to be this big secret deal except Axl seems to like everything to be. Look at the odd way they conduct themselves even during the reunion.
There's no way a 2-3 new GNR songs played live on youtube would actually hurt the album and the masses that would snap up such a record. If anything it would create Buzz.
The issue with CD wasn't that they played them live, it was that:
- The album was at least 10+ years late, and specifically 2 years late from the 2006 tour buzz.
- 3/4 of the Album leaked in full studio quality months before it come out.
- Love or hate them it was a 'fake' band to the general public who consider GNR needs Axl and Slash
- Stylistically, it's a lot less rock than UYI overall, and this was obvious to people when it was put up for a free-stream in it's entirety.
- The album had already become a joke due to delays, my local store would not believe me when I told them the actual release date to preorder.
- Axl hid from the media, and droped the release with no comment, no interview, no promo and not even a videoclip or anything.
That's why CD didn't go gangbusters, the fact he sang Madagascar in 2001 and Better in 2006 was actually one of the few things that kept some momentum with the fanbase and enthusiasm for the project.
The current GNR doing a "work in progress" version of a new jam live all over youtube would be amazing for GNR. There's no way it would hurt a new album unless it sucked, and there's no reason to keep everything secret all the time.
Re: Perfect Crime
We're largely saying the same thing Monkey.
In 2002, the album would've been released after the VMAs and the US tour would've continued. Same thing as what you're saying about Metallica.
The Rio show in 2001 Axl made a point of saying what he said in 2008. This is the album, next year is another album, we'll be back on another tour.
But playing new songs live doesn't make sense unless you're releasing an album and they aren't.
On the other hand, this is why I'm utterly unbothered when people go "But we only have a five-year window before Axl's voice is out of commission they have to do an album NOW". Because if/when they do an album, it'll probably use the Chinese Democracy II vocal tracks, which were recorded – in some cases – back in 1999.
Yeah but that'd cover CD II.
If the 3rd album in the trilogy is incomplete, the vocals probably are too.
And if CD II is put on the shelf for politics or business reasons, we have nada.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Perfect Crime
But playing new songs live doesn't make sense unless you're releasing an album and they aren't.
From a business perspective I agree, but then my thinking is - if Axl was excited to make new music, loving making music and keen to share it with the world - but the big bad label was being mean about it - then playing them live even with no release in sight would be a way to scratch that itch.
I think therefore that the reason we are never shown anything is that Axl has some type of anxiety around releasing new music and that it extends to playing it live.
It doesn't seem a coincidence that he's always very keen for covers, or to guest on projects where he doesn't have to be the author of everything.
- A Private Eye
- Rep: 77
Re: Perfect Crime
Weren’t Atlas and Going Down listed several times?
We're largely saying the same thing Monkey.
In 2002, the album would've been released after the VMAs and the US tour would've continued. Same thing as what you're saying about Metallica.
The Rio show in 2001 Axl made a point of saying what he said in 2008. This is the album, next year is another album, we'll be back on another tour.
But playing new songs live doesn't make sense unless you're releasing an album and they aren't.
elevendayempire wrote:On the other hand, this is why I'm utterly unbothered when people go "But we only have a five-year window before Axl's voice is out of commission they have to do an album NOW". Because if/when they do an album, it'll probably use the Chinese Democracy II vocal tracks, which were recorded – in some cases – back in 1999.
Yeah but that'd cover CD II.
If the 3rd album in the trilogy is incomplete, the vocals probably are too.
And if CD II is put on the shelf for politics or business reasons, we have nada.
I’m pretty sure Axl can still knock out strong vocals in the studio. Whether that can be replicated every night on an 18 month tour remains to be seen. However his stint with AC/DC if nothing else proves he still has the classic rasp when needed live, let alone a studio setting.
