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- dalethirsty
- Rep: 20
Re: The Chinese Democracy Sequel References Thread
the timing around the naming of the record is very interesting.
august '99 - the "2,000 intensions" title is mentioned as a possible name in the famous kerrang article.
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/arti … ticleid=27
in the article, they call out a bunch of song titles. 2 of which actually ended up on the album; the rest axl confirmed as nonsense. out of the 11 names mentioned, we only know of 2 actually being legitimate. that leaves kerrang with an 11% score. not exactly a passing grade.
Over the next 12 months, the band apparently recorded 30 songs for the album, continually reworking them. Tracks recorded were said to include ‘Prostitute’, ‘Cock-a-roach soup’, ‘This I love’, ‘Suckerpunched’, ‘No love remains’, ‘Friend or foe’, ‘Zip it’, ‘Something always’, ‘Hearts get killed’ and ‘Closing in on you’.
Interestingly, sources even suggested that the album already had a title - possibly ‘Cockroach soup’ or, more realistically, ‘2000 intentions’. And then....nothing.
september '99 - oh my god was released. at the time, i don't believe the name chinese democracy was rumored or mentioned anywhere.
november '99 axl sat down with his ol' pal kurt loder for a chat about how the album was coming. here, the title was now confirmed to be chinese democracy. so either kerrang was getting disinfo (or making shit up), or the name chinese democracy came shortly after their article was released.
Loder: You're going to call this album "Chinese Democracy." What is the meaning of that, since there is no Chinese democracy, of course?
Rose: Well, there's a lot of Chinese democracy movements, and it's something that there's a lot of talk about, and it's something that will be nice to see. It could also just be like an ironic statement. I don't know, I just like the sound of it.
january '01 - axl told the story of what inspired the song chinese democracy. the way he talks about it, he makes it seem like the song was written just a few weeks ago. like beta was honking the horn outside screaming at axl, and he was inside watching kundun with his jaw on the floor. it's almost like the year 2000 didn't exist for axl.
Maybe he did.
He said soon was the word with the Better video release in the chats but that’s it. You get what you outsource to Fernando’s friends.
There was a supposedly commissioned Catcher music video that was basically stock footage of someone’s kid in LA.
There was a unreleased Sorry music video but didn’t feature the band.
Some cancelled tour documentary doohickey in the Ashba era.
Mickey Rourke would’ve played The Shackler if a Shacklers revenge video were made.
The Sorry one was an improvement but still not greatly impressive.
Axl had his ass kissed for 20 years and also the record company refused to furnish funds for promotion. Not a good creative promotional combo. Then Ashba Creations took over.
found an additional comment by axl in the 2009 billboard article.
Billboard: Are you planning to make videos?
Axl: We're finalizing a video for "Better" and writing a couple others now. Over time different ideas have been tossed around, written up or submitted but that was then. Nothing we had come up with -- or at least the approaches so far -- felt right. We have been discouraged from making a video all along by Interscope, up until Best Buy requested one after the release, and in a manner by Interscope then of, "So where's the video?," taking everyone more than off guard.
the line about interscope discouraging them from making a video is interesting. in axl's head, that's probably another way the label "didn't support him". in reality, that was probably the recording company going "a fucking video?! finish the goddamn album first!"
Re: The Chinese Democracy Sequel References Thread
I loved those titles from Kerrang but they're unsubstantiated and could be read as someone taking the piss with them.
Todd The Intern will live on in our hearts.
I don't remember the chronology but I'd bet "Prostitute" was mentioned before that in 1999. I couldn't find the date for the Spin article off the cuff or Zakk Wylde's comment about it sounding like "fire and ice". And "This I Love" was pretty much the most infamous unreleased GN'R song, so really, taken holistically the Kerrang thing is nothing new combined with hot air.
Axl is acting coy about it being an ironic statement, he told it to the new guys and they liked it and went with it. I'm sure it was at least partially influenced by Duff calling him a dictator but I mean, it was Axl's clear vision. Note the year Kundun came out and his comments about going to see movies with Zakk too. Then you have the line about the album being what he did over the summer (maybe 1999).
The video was the least of his worries. At the time of release, he didn't have a lead guitarist. 
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: The Chinese Democracy Sequel References Thread
the line about interscope discouraging them from making a video is interesting. in axl's head, that's probably another way the label "didn't support him".
It could also be about the cost.
Estranged video cost $5,000,000.
When your album is already a long way in the hole on recording costs you could see the label would question getting further behind.
- dalethirsty
- Rep: 20
Re: The Chinese Democracy Sequel References Thread
the "fire and ice" comment was from buckmaster, apparently... although i can't find the original source anywhere.
It's a mid-up, kind of biting 4 minute song with an aggressive rhythm section. The way I wrote for the string section (32-piece, consisting of ten 1st Violins, eight 2nd Violins, six violas, and eight cellos) gave the song another dimension. The song is powerful, like fire and ice.
zakk wylde referred to what he heard as "afd on steroids."
between that and the shit about "zeppelin remixed by reznor & beck," this album never had a chance. there's no way it could have lived up to the mythos that was built around it.
some super interesting rumors about the supposed catcher video from chinese whispers 2002:
The Catcher Shanghai'd
The rumors of GNR taking a trip to Shanghai to film a new video kept coming, zeroing in on early October. Meanwhile, the rumored release date crept up a notch, now landing on 12/03, just before the show in Madison Square Garden, New York.
"Axl Rose was spotted in Shanghai on Tuesday (October 8). Was the Guns N' Roses mastermind taking Chinese Democracy to the streets instead of the studio? Who knows ... there's still no release date in sight." (MTV, 10/09/02)
"Guns N' Roses were apparently [...] in Shanghai [...] last week [...] recording a video for the track 'Catcher In The Rye', which is taken from their forthcoming new album 'Chinese Democracy'." (Metal Hammer, 10/20/02)
"We had the following sent to us from a DJ at a radio station. They are doing an interview with Axl and his management sent over the following info to them:
3. The interviewer should ask about:
d) He spent some time in China and wrote songs there - what was it like?" (Metal Sludge, 12/06/02)"Bach: And than you were telling me the other day that you lived in China for three months?
Axl: Yeah, we went and stayed in China for about three months, Beijing, Shanghai, and Xian." (Eddie Trunk show, 05/05/06)
i wonder which songs were written there? the later stuff, like better, shackler's or scraped? or stuff we've yet to hear?
At the time of release, he didn't have a lead guitarist.
i love robin for that. gave axl a taste of his own medicine. twice! i'm surprised axl didn't find a way to recall all of the cd's from best buy to erase robin's parts and replace them with dj ashba solos.
the real shame in all this is that robin is likely all over the 2nd record and we will probably never hear any of it. we might see some of the material in 5 years, but it will have slash all over it by then.
if any album deserved a box set, it's chinese democracy.
Re: The Chinese Democracy Sequel References Thread
The new A-List referenced in 2002 is a mystery considering near everything we've heard dates to 1997-1999. Tommy mentions stuff he hadn't heard which again, would've likely been something else than what was on CD.
The cover was already solidified as of 2001 so the trip would've been before that.
And yes, a music video commissioned for a song 2+ years old. The label was smartly not having any of that.
Re: The Chinese Democracy Sequel References Thread
The new A-List referenced in 2002 is a mystery considering near everything we've heard dates to 1997-1999.
Bucket & Brain came in and some new songs were written, including Shackler and Scraped. They replaced some songs in the original '97-'99 A-list.
And yes, a music video commissioned for a song 2+ years old. The label was smartly not having any of that.
Sean Beavan said OMG had been around for a few years when Iovine picked it up. This correlates with Axl's OMG press release, saying parts of the song were a few years old, written by Paul and Dizzy when Duff and Matt(!) were in the band. But OMG became a real song only in '99, so dating CD songs in general is a gossamer procedure 
As for the Catcher shoot, Paul Buckmaster said Axl'd visited the Orient when they met in mid-June, '02. If we take both reports with Axl's word for it, that'd mean he went down to China before and after the '02 minitour, culminating with the VMA's.
"Now Axl, about the album release..."
"I'm going back to China to write more songs."
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: The Chinese Democracy Sequel References Thread
zakk wylde referred to what he heard as "afd on steroids."
This quote interests me - because it seems very far removed from the album we ended up with.
AFD is a guitar rock album with almost no ballads - in that SCOM is kinda a ballad but its rocked up heavily.
CD is more like the softer parts of UYI with long and slow piano oriented numbers.
Given he's usually a straight talker, and he knows his guitar, it makes me wonder if he heard some old demos of some other songs that were subsequently ditched after Slash left.
- FlashFlood
- Rep: 55
Re: The Chinese Democracy Sequel References Thread
Zakk jammed with the band when Slash was in the fold. AFD on steroids is not in reference to the Chinese Democracy project.
Re: The Chinese Democracy Sequel References Thread
Axl said in the Loder interview that it would've been easier to make an AFD style album 95-97 as that was his headspace at the time but Slash prevented it for whatever reason.
He also said he wanted to do songs about love and positivity or something to that effect and Slash just wanted to do songs about hate in his peak Arizona days.
Oy, who knows.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: The Chinese Democracy Sequel References Thread
Zakk jammed with the band when Slash was in the fold. AFD on steroids is not in reference to the Chinese Democracy project.
Ahh if he was just describing GNR with himself in the band then that makes perfect sense - Zakk is basically a blues player like Slash but kinda roided up on metal shredding. So AFD songs with him and Slash would sound like that!
Axl said in the Loder interview that it would've been easier to make an AFD style album 95-97 as that was his headspace at the time but Slash prevented it for whatever reason.
Always struggled to believe that.
I'm sure it's true to Axl but I suspect it's perspective.
I mean if you look at Slash's solo work - both in snakepit and with myles there's GNR style guitar riffs everywhere. If anything one could accuse slash of not changing up his style all that much over the years...
So i suspect Axl means something more vague - like Slash through his conduct made it so there would be no Axl and Slash chats which made it so there could be no AFD or something that makes sense to Axl but wouldn't be everyone else's take on the situation.
