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- Voodoochild
- Rep: 3
Re: Oh My God and the Thesis of Chinese Democracy
Voodoochild wrote:I love the track, I hate the mix. More than the Buckethead work, I'd like to hear Brain's rearranged drums.
And I hate that it's not available on Spotify.
Brain's drums in the newer mix with Bucket and Ron are great but there is just something about Josh's in the demo. Brain has a lot more cymbal crashs combined with the mean drum beat. Josh's drums are so aggressive. The differences between the demo and the new OMG make them almost different songs. Tough to compare!
Don't get me wrong, I love Josh Freese. IMO, his work on IRS and CITR were better than what Brain (and Frank) did after. It's just that, like you said, it should sound totally different. And I like the drum fills he did on the Las Vegas 2001 gig.
Still, the mixing in the original track is crap. I'm not an audiophile, but I do like some fancy headphones (of course, Im not talking about crappy Beats stuff). And every single one I tried with OMG didn't do enough to make it sound that much better.
Re: Oh My God and the Thesis of Chinese Democracy
Great points on drums from both. They are different songs, as the '99 demos are earliest affirmed incarnations. What we got were multi-gen covers, partially by the original players. Axl wanted Brain's feel to the drums, while Jimmy Iovine felt Freese's drumming was too industrial. They were snappy and to the point, but the context was a Sean Beavan album with NIN alumni. The concept was Guns w/ industrial flavor. The drumming style fit.
Judging by OMG and the demos, I think Axl, there and then, managed the solo album he started talking about after the UYI tour. It was his understanding on where his (Guns') music should be in '96-99. All the people who pushed him back on that were daft, or failed to understand him at all. Point being, he was committed to that sound at that point in time, album readied. Push him back and he goes into thinking mode again, listening to a ton of music (his band and others), before coursing his vision through his own personality kinks. Which takes him a while.
On the OMG mix, there's the story about in the NYT article.
Mr. Rose fussed over the song so much that he, Mr. Iovine and studio technicians stayed up until nearly dawn adjusting the final mix, according to people involved.
Axl on manic mode, OCD'ing over everything, in a top-flight studio space at Rumbo. If the mix sounds like the work of a madman, it's because it is so. It would've benefited a more placid Axl going through the mix again and loosening it up.
- Voodoochild
- Rep: 3
Re: Oh My God and the Thesis of Chinese Democracy
Great points on drums from both. They are different songs, as the '99 demos are earliest affirmed incarnations. What we got were multi-gen covers, partially by the original players. Axl wanted Brain's feel to the drums, while Jimmy Iovine felt Freese's drumming was too industrial. They were snappy and to the point, but the context was a Sean Beavan album with NIN alumni. The concept was Guns w/ industrial flavor. The drumming style fit.
Judging by OMG and the demos, I think Axl, there and then, managed the solo album he started talking about after the UYI tour. It was his understanding on where his (Guns') music should be in '96-99. All the people who pushed him back on that were daft, or failed to understand him at all. Point being, he was committed to that sound at that point in time, album readied. Push him back and he goes into thinking mode again, listening to a ton of music (his band and others), before coursing his vision through his own personality kinks. Which takes him a while.
On the OMG mix, there's the story about in the NYT article.
Mr. Rose fussed over the song so much that he, Mr. Iovine and studio technicians stayed up until nearly dawn adjusting the final mix, according to people involved.
Axl on manic mode, OCD'ing over everything, in a top-flight studio space at Rumbo. If the mix sounds like the work of a madman, it's because it is so. It would've benefited a more placid Axl going through the mix again and loosening it up.
I think the main problem with OMG was the wall of distorted & processed guitars and keyboard fighting with the drums. Axl wanted that particular industrial sound in contrast with some bluesy lead guitar fills and leads. I like it, but it sounded so compressed and tight on the soundstage that the drums were constantly muffled. And that was so different from the well defined stereo separation from AFD that it sounded jarring to most of the fans.
Also, the bridge was supposed to sound "disco" like Axl said in that 1999 press release or MTV interview (can't remember which one), but it still sounded like that industrial vibe with the snare and toms sounding the same. It was the time for the drums to breath, but it just sounded muffled with some hi-hat in the mix. Shacklers recycled the same idea (industrial processed guitars with a disco beat in the bridge) and sounded better IMO.
Re: Oh My God and the Thesis of Chinese Democracy
It seemed to me Axl was trying to make Chinese Democracy his rock n' roll symphony.
The disparate elements function on different layers like your strings, brass, woodwinds, etc. It doesn't matter that they're layered on top of one another you're supposed to appreciate them individually and collectively.
The problem is the final mix is only listenable on a hi-fi system and even then still flawed. It tries to balance the layers by manipulating them in space and by channel. The result is a wide spectrum mix but one that neutered the vocals and drums. There's a phantom center effect where these elements pale in comparison to say a rhythm guitar or electronic jingle. It would've been smart to make a traditional stereo mix down but Axl does what he wants obviously.
The Oh My God mix is flat to the point where it feels unmixed but Axl's vocals and some aggressive guitars carry the song and if you bring up your levels you're bringing up these prominent elements. I think the new Oh My God sounds more like 70s speed metal than anything industrial.
The analysis of Freese and Brain is pretty on point. Josh is terse and powerful. Brain has a deeper groove with a low/hi contrast. I'm a big fan of Brain through his playing with Bucket but I actually think his drums on CD are pretty underwhelming.
- Voodoochild
- Rep: 3
Re: Oh My God and the Thesis of Chinese Democracy
It seemed to me Axl was trying to make Chinese Democracy his rock n' roll symphony.
The disparate elements function on different layers like your strings, brass, woodwinds, etc. It doesn't matter that they're layered on top of one another you're supposed to appreciate them individually and collectively.
The problem is the final mix is only listenable on a hi-fi system and even then still flawed. It tries to balance the layers by manipulating them in space and by channel. The result is a wide spectrum mix but one that neutered the vocals and drums. There's a phantom center effect where these elements pale in comparison to say a rhythm guitar or electronic jingle. It would've been smart to make a traditional stereo mix down but Axl does what he wants obviously.
The Oh My God mix is flat to the point where it feels unmixed but Axl's vocals and some aggressive guitars carry the song and if you bring up your levels you're bringing up these prominent elements. I think the new Oh My God sounds more like 70s speed metal than anything industrial.
The analysis of Freese and Brain is pretty on point. Josh is terse and powerful. Brain has a deeper groove with a low/hi contrast. I'm a big fan of Brain through his playing with Bucket but I actually think his drums on CD are pretty underwhelming.
Agreed. And I too think Brain's drums on CD a bti underwhelming, but the Andy Wallace mixing (the one that leaked on Antiquiet) sounded better - Riad was heavier and had a lot more punch. ITW on the other hand sounded interesting, but the straight foward approach from Frank worked better IMHO.
Re: Oh My God and the Thesis of Chinese Democracy
Agreed. The Andy Wallace mixes are a more traditional stereo mix so it's much nicer to listen to.
He elevated the synth and electronica elements to try to give it that 70s symphonic pop (ELO) sound it seemed Axl was going for especially with the UYI III material. The elements are properly sweetened, crisp and vibrant, not thin and muddy like Caram's dreadful mix.
The only thing I didn't like on Andy's mixes is he tried to get a little too cute at times. I think the outro to Better is where it bothered me. Besides that, it's the only version of CD that I actually listen to. I never listen to the album version. Thank God for leaks!
- Voodoochild
- Rep: 3
Re: Oh My God and the Thesis of Chinese Democracy
Agreed. The Andy Wallace mixes are a more traditional stereo mix so it's much nicer to listen to.
He elevated the synth and electronica elements to try to give it that 70s symphonic pop (ELO) sound it seemed Axl was going for especially with the UYI III material. The elements are properly sweetened, crisp and vibrant, not thin and muddy like Caram's dreadful mix.
Yeah right? I would love to hear the 2006 version of CD. It's pre-Bumblefoot (I love the guy, but Im curious about the Bucket/Robin stuff) and still has the more stuff like Better which was after RTB, I guess. Id like to hear a more straight foward version of Scraped too.
- dave-gnfnr
- Rep: 16
Re: Oh My God and the Thesis of Chinese Democracy
Great post.
I think this song is criminally under-rated. It's really classic Axl lyrics - the mixing of metaphors and the way his mind moves around - it's like being in a dream state sometimes - connected thoughts that all make sense but are very unusually linked in places.
I'd love to hear the version with new guitars Axl spoke about.
Also, think i've mentioned this before but I think the transcript of the second verse on this site is wrong...but maybe it's my ears.
The reason why most people don't apperciate oh my gods lyircs is because most people have the wrong lyrics
I used to read the first verse of what most people came up with or the joke of CC lyrics the movie had and I was like WTF lol
It's not as you're thinking
Or as you've imagined
To live in the shade
Of beliefs that were fashioned
To leave you in slavery
And drain out your soul
But what can i do when
There's so many liars
That crawl through your veins
Like millions of spiders
That seek out their victims
And who is the wiser
Watch out
Gotcha -
those are some great lyrics
But the ones a lot of people had were laughable like this
It's not how you're thinking
Like you've been right
You've been living a trade-off
Believe your own version
Believe your enslavery and drain out your soul
What can I do when there's so many liars
That crawl through your veins
Like millions of spiders
That seek out their victims
And ruin the wiser
Watch out
Gotcha
so its no wonder why most did not take to Oh my god when they were seeing or hearing the wrong lyrics
Re: Oh My God and the Thesis of Chinese Democracy
From 2001 Vegas show:
http://www.axlrosefaclube.com/wp-conten … lyrics.jpg
