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Re: Chris Cornell dead
Good to see you again CSS...unfortunately under such terrible circumstances. 
I consider Superunknown to be one of the greatest records ever made.
Goddamn right it is.
In my world....
Superunknown
Rumours
AFD
Dark Side of the Moon
anything else cant touch any of those records.
CSS, did you ever get the Superunknown box set from a few years ago? Its killer. The bonus discs including demos/rehearsals, etc. was amazing. That demo of Cameron singing Fresh Tendrils is an oddity and I love the vibe of the demo to the title track. The version of My Wave on the rehearsal is my favorite version as Ben's bass is really high in the mix.
Re: Chris Cornell dead
Holy shit...this story is now taking a very bizarre and more tragic turn....
The family of Chris Cornell are speaking out about the shocking death of the Soundgarden and Audioslave frontman, who was found dead at MGM Grand Detroit on Wednesday night. The medical examiner ruled that Cornell died of suicide by hanging, but the family believes he was not suicidal and instead hint that the side effects of his prescription drugs may have led to his death.
The Cornell family’s attorney Kirk Pasich said in a statement that the family is “disturbed” at inferences that Cornell knowingly and intentionally took his life and that Cornell told his wife that he had taken “an extra Ativan or two” before his death.
“Without the results of toxicology tests, we do not know what was going on with Chris — or if any substances contributed to his demise,” Pasich said. “Chris, a recovering addict, had a prescription for Ativan and may have taken more Ativan than recommended dosages. The family believes that if Chris took his life, he did not know what he was doing, and that drugs or other substances may have affected his actions.”
Ativan (lorazepam) is a benzodiazepine that is used to treat anxiety, drug withdrawal, agoraphobia and seizure disorders, among other things. According to the U.S. National Library of Medicine, rare but serious side effects include worsening depression, unusual mood or behavior and thoughts of hurting yourself.For a small percentage of Ativan users, it can have crazy side effects. Looks like one of the greatest singers of our time may have wound up being in that extreme minority.
This is shocking.
Ironically, this was the very first thing my mom brought up, before even Vicky Cornell did (which is shocking). As soon as the word Ativan was dropped, she said that exact thing.
She used to work as a unit clerk on a psych ward and saw weird shit like that just from bad med combos. Too much, too little, etc.
HKH wrote:Axlin16 wrote:I'll never be able to rectify why Chris bailed on his 3 kids, that is inexcusable to me, like Kurt and Francis Bean (if we don't believe in the murder-theory).
I can totally understand why you feel this way. I used to feel the same. Then, a few years ago, a good friend of mine killed himself. He was married, had three young children and was a respected, successful doctor. He was down-to-earth, witty as shit, modest, thoughtful. One of a kind. Just a very cool dude. He was also a recovering alcoholic. In fact, we met in an outpatient program and got each other through some pretty tough times. There was not a selfish bone in his body and I know he loved his children immensely. I will ever accept that he was only thinking of himself when he took his own life. It just wasn't in his nature.
I think it's important to understand that when people get to the point where they're ready to chose death over life, they are no longer thinking rationally. They no longer have a realistic view of their place in this world. They don't comprehend what they mean to others nor do they realize the tremendous impact their death will have on those who care about them. They have lost all feelings of self-worth. I think, often, they truly feel they are doing their loved ones a favor by relieving them of a burden.
It's hard to understand why any loving parent would chose to leave their children. I get that. I really do. I don't condone suicide nor do I think it's the right choice. I just don't necessarily see it as a selfish act when someone decides it's their only choice.
Agreed. Depression is one fucked up mental illness. The person is in a very bizarre state of mind. Like you mentioned, they think they are a burden on family and friends. They believe killing themselves will remove that burden from their loved ones. Fucked up place for the human mind to go.
Oh, I don't disagree with either of you. I've been in that darker place before. What happens is, no matter how much love is around you, you are in such a dark place you start feeling like your darkness is a black hole that is sucking those you do care for in with you, and you start to negatively affect the people who care for around you.
Then you think, they would be better and happier without you. The last thing you want to do is drag them down with you.
It's a weird, bizarre, fucked up place to be. Regardless of the outcome, I definitely have sympathy for the man himself, in addition to his widow and children.
Re: Chris Cornell dead
bigbri wrote:Doctors are the new drug dealers.
Agreed. I don't think this is a case where he took a few too many Ativan. Of course, I may be wrong and while I don't want to judge, I have a feeling he was hooked. For how long I'm not sure, likely at least during the tour. Just couldn't do it anymore, needed some kind of buzz to get thru the shows. A high, or better yet, a low. To present himself and his art. He could have built up quite a tolerance and taking multiple (5-10) a night, maybe more to get thru the day.
He does seem spaced in the My Wave video. Also Ben, the bassist, seems remarkably going thru the motions. I don't know if he always played so standoffish looking, but almost seems he's in disagreement of Chris' 'people need to leave me alone' type comment before the song. That part I'm reading into of course.
I will say that we do have an over the top prescription pill problem in this country. It's terrible. Not just celebrities (how many have we lost the last 5-10 years??) but it trickles down into the opiod epidemic and pill mills ruining towns and lives. I'll admit, that's one thing the Obama admin fell short on. Cracking down on that industry. Money talks I'm sure.
I don't think Ben & Chris cared for each other that much, beyond just mutual respect of talent. Ben can be short-tempered and Chris would do stuff that I think rubbed Ben as self-aggrandizing at times, and even since the reunion in 2010, there's been a weird vibe between the two of them, and Ben seems to put up an invisible wall with Chris to even be able to tolerate Chris. James has actually pointed this out prior to Cornell's death, and is very visible in multiple videos since the reunion kicked off.
As for Cornell's update stuff, none of us are going to know something new until the autopsy is done, but after the County ME released the report with the timeline of what was going on... it looks more and more to me like Cornell was done and his decision was done.
How long does it take one to get off a stage? When did SG get done? Around 11? Not only was Cornell back at the Hotel, someone as MASSIVELY high profile as Cornell was off stage, back in his room, and dead within what... a little over an hour? That's fucking fast. Really fucking fast. The only other weird scenario would be murder, but i'm not seeing anything of that here.
Maybe he called his wife who tried to talk him out of it? And she just told him to take an extra Ativan?
I know it's all speculation and conjecture, but when I heard that timeline of when they found him, it leans even more to something Cornell planned, might've had second thoughts, and then went through it. Depression is a chronic condition, he was probably thinking about this regularly depending on his mood.
Anyways, RIP to him, and love to his kids and friends, and mom, and the Seattle family. It's just so sad.
Re: Chris Cornell dead
Ironically, this was the very first thing my mom brought up, before even Vicky Cornell did (which is shocking). As soon as the word Ativan was dropped, she said that exact thing.
She used to work as a unit clerk on a psych ward and saw weird shit like that just from bad med combos. Too much, too little, etc.
You guys know my history in this department. What really surprises me about this(if its really true) is the fact he is not a first time user of benzos. A benzo user quickly learns how their body reacts to the meds. What I'm starting to wonder is if he already took his dose earlier in the evening, took more during the show(he leaves the stage at least once), and then after the show, he takes at least two more that we know of. He may have went into some sort of manic episode and considering the possibility he was drinking or using other drugs/meds, he entered a suicidal state which like I said earlier, would've been a brief feeling and would've dissipated fairly quickly. He just needed to lay down for awhile and/or have someone literally talk him off the ledge.
I watched the full concert last night. He is in major distress fairly quickly. For the first time in his career, he is forgetting words to songs, adding different words in their place(all my friends are mexicans!!) skipping verses, having the crowd sing instead of him ala Vince Neil, performing songs without his guitar while staggering around slowly onstage, and singing so slow the band is unable to properly correct things and get back on track, and at one point(already forgot which song), he signals for the band to wrap it up....which they ignore.
Remember our discussion when the GNR reunion started when everyone was speculating about how they would interact onstage and we used the SG reunion as a comparison? THis show REALLY highlights the fact these guys were not very close personally. He is in distress and practically crying for help and no one in the band appears to go up to him and ask what is wrong. I find that troubling.
At one point(was it Outshined?), while Kim is playing, Cornell walks over to him and pats him on the shoulder kinda how Axl does with Slash, Duff, etc. Kim doesn't even look up at him and acknowledge this. Its a bit out of character for Cornell. As you know, he does not sprint across the stage touching everyone like Axl. Cornell is 100% professional and focuses on the task at hand. He rarely leaves the front since he is usually playing guitar while singing.
Your mom mentioned drug cocktails. These are very dangerous and I've experienced it myself. I used to love Las Vegas cocktails(oxy/vicodine and Soma). Cornell may have been using his own cocktail and these benzos finished him off. Its also possible he was using more than one benzo. If he was drinking....holy shit....NOT a good idea to mix pills and booze. Hell, liquor is a depressant in and of itself.
Oh, I don't disagree with either of you. I've been in that darker place before. What happens is, no matter how much love is around you, you are in such a dark place you start feeling like your darkness is a black hole that is sucking those you do care for in with you,
It can also do the exact opposite.....you feel as if those around you cant relate to the despair you are dealing with and you virtually shut them out. Not disown them or anything like that but they sorta reach a point where you don't factor them in to this aspect of your life that is consuming you.
I am not surprised that he hung up on his wife in the middle of their conversation. He kept telling her he was tired and then hung up. She wasn't a factor to him at that point and that is not a negative jab at her. He was just in a different place....one she had never been in before.
I'm just glad he didn't take anyone out with him. It shows that even in his black hole, he truly loved those around him. YOu know his lyrics, how dark they are, and the issues he had with his ex wife.
Mailman is generally considered to be about the postal rage going on at the time. You dont have to dig deep into the song to realize he's really singing that about a woman. So is 4th of July. Many years ago there were rumors that Cantrell had an affair with Silver and Cornell found out about it. I always thought this song was about that. Many think the song is about the end of the world. yeah....his world when he finds out his wife has strayed....and with HIM of all people(she managed AIC). He even uses a line from an AIC song in it.
King Animal has got some really heavy lyrics as well. By Crooked Steps takes on a new meaning, so does Bones of Birds, and Taree should clue us in that he's not talking about his drug use in his youth and how it was consuming his life. He's talking about now.
My mom cried about this when she found out. I told you guys how she became a fan a few years ago when hearing Black Hole Sun on the radio. I still find it funny how a 61 year old who hated the majority of music I listened to back then wound up loving Soundgarden. Although if she was going to rediscover killer music from my youth, I'm not surprised it wound up being SG. That voice just sucks the listener in.
Re: Chris Cornell dead
I don't think Ben & Chris cared for each other that much, beyond just mutual respect of talent. Ben can be short-tempered and Chris would do stuff that I think rubbed Ben as self-aggrandizing at times, and even since the reunion in 2010, there's been a weird vibe between the two of them, and Ben seems to put up an invisible wall with Chris to even be able to tolerate Chris. James has actually pointed this out prior to Cornell's death, and is very visible in multiple videos since the reunion kicked off.
Yep. They have zero interaction onstage. Every now and then between songs when Cornell is talking to the audience, he'll crack a joke or something but they rarely say anything to one another.
I think the only one he was a bit close to was Cameron. He knew Kim the longest but as we all know, post SG breakup these guys did not hang out together. The one he had the biggest problem with was Ben. Ben has a rep as being an asshole and as you probably remember, the last show in 96 before the breakup, Ben threw his bass onstage and left the stage, Kim and Matt followed, and Cornell had to do a solo version of BHS to end the show. He then ran backstage and fought Ben until they broke it up.
Another interesting fact that could've played a role in this and I mean no disrespect to Ben as I'm obviously speculating like the rest of the world...I love the guy and he's my favorite bass player.
Ben is/was a pill junkie. This was talked about when the reunion happened. He was literally sleeping on peoples couches before getting the call that it was time to rock and roll. Get two pill users together, things can get pretty dicey. Thats not to blame Ben for any of this but he is a potential enabler in that department. Even if there's tension between two people, when drugs are concerned, that tension takes a timeout.
Ben puts up an invisible wall between the whole band.
Check out this performance which is my all time favorite version of this track. Its even better than the album version. THis is practically a private performance at a media event and they're still distant. Ben is off in the corner by himself. Each guy is on a private island
yet they are so damn good that any audience is willing to overlook it.
- Gunslinger
- Rep: 88
Re: Chris Cornell dead
Huge loss, tough one to see go and especially when it didn't need be. Excellent initial post you made concerning this tragedy James, it really hit home and was needed. I was looking for something like this and knew you had a deep love of Soundgarden. You didn't disappoint.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Chris Cornell dead
Huge loss, tough one to see go and especially when it didn't need be. Excellent initial post you made concerning this tragedy James, it really hit home and was needed. I was looking for something like this and knew you had a deep love of Soundgarden. You didn't disappoint.
Welcome back man! It's been like 6 years. How you been?
Re: Chris Cornell dead
Holy shit....Gunslinger entered the building. Haven't seen you since before I bailed years ago due to my drug use.
You've been away for too long. 
I completely disagree with you here. It's not fair at all to Kim, one of the most underrated guitarists in his era, and the actual FOUNDER of the band, to pack it up, because Chris couldn't deal with his bullshit and chose to pack it in and leave the building for good.
That's not Kim's fault. Or Ben's. Or Matt's. Granted Matt can always jump to Pearl Jam, but I always hated how SG, with all that talent, sat dormant for years, so Chris could go do what he wanted.
There's no way that band is not feeling tons of mixed emotions right now, especially Kim & Ben, imho. And it is way way way too late in the game for these guys to rebuild that band into something else (think Dead & Co.) in order to keep making music and go on.
Although Cornell was an amazing writer, I would absolutely support, based on Chris' decision to leave the way he did, a Soundgarden without Cornell.
I can see that side of the coin. I still don't agree with it though. Ben and Kim did nothing during the years Soundgarden was gone. They needed him a hell of a lot more than he needed them. Continuing without him would be in bad taste.
It wont happen but I'd definitely support a Freddie Mercury type tribute or something along those lines.
You're right...the SG guys are loaded with talent but if they want to continue, do a side project.
It also depends on who exactly owns the SG name. This may all be a moot point.
As you may remember, when the reunion happened Thayil talked about how crazy it was how Soundgarden basically skipped a generation due to no merch of any kind being in stores and a bunch of other things being ignored. If you read between those lines, he does not own SG and had no say in those decisions.
I wonder – and I realise it's ghoulishly soon to think about this – if the Soundgarden guys will co-opt any of his unreleased solo material for future releases. Queen kind of did the same with Made in Heaven, though in that instance they actually used some previously-released Mercury solo material.
Zero chance.
Not sure how big of a SG fan you are but Cornell's solo material is completely different than SG's music. They could not just take some Cornell tracks from his solo vault and miraculously turn them into monster tracks for a SG album.
Re: Chris Cornell dead
ifound this quote from Kim in an old interview when he's discussing putting Telephantasm together.
No, I was not interested in getting the band back together again. It was entirely attending to catalog, merchandise and those issues. Given that the band was broken up, it was important that the legacy was attended to. So much stuff had been neglected: our merchandising, the website. We broke up in ‘97 and the [music] industry changed quite a bit a few years later. The record company wanted a retrospective greatest hits thing and I said, “Whoa, let me make sure we don’t leave it up to the record company.” Because they’ll have a thousand versions of “Black Hole Sun” and “Spoonman” on it. I supervised Telephantasm, the artwork and the track list. The deal when the band broke up was that I would supervise any compilations to make sure that it is SOUNDGARDEN friendly and not just record label friendly.
Now that Cornell is dead(I still cant believe it) and we're definitely going to be getting several Soundgarden releases in the coming years, I am confident that he will know how to approach this situation. I hope Cornell's wife stays out of the way and doesn't become a Yoko One type figure. If she does, I want Thayil to include their One Minute of Silence cover on the first post-Cornell release as a sign he is having to deal with that type of thing.
I also found this...
We also want to do an album of some covers that we’ve recorded. Then I want to do an album of some instrumental stuff and some dub mixes.
How many though? Some of this made it on Echo of Miles. God I hope there are some killer covers in the vault that they have never mentioned before, even if its just doing covers during rehearsals as a joke. Clearly I'm praying for a GNR cover.
If there's a lot of instrumentals, I'd love for Ben and/or Matt to add vocals to them.
One more thing, they should let people like Moby(who's worked with them before, Switch, etc. do some club mixes and that will heavily push an album on the mainstream charts.
Also found this...
Any leftovers from King Animal?
Nope. Everything on King Animal is what we completed. There were lots of other ideas, more ideas to do another original album, but they weren’t completed.
Bummer. I was hoping for finished tracks that didn't make the cut like was the case with Superunknown and DOTU.
Soundgarden’s touring itinerary is pretty full, but Thayil suggests that he prefers the writing and recording process.
I bet the last few years must have been really frustrating for him.
We’re not one of those bands that has one primary songwriter or a leader. I don’t want to say names, but I am sure that you are aware there are plenty of bands who have the one guy and the others guys around him.
Anyone care to guess who he is obviously referencing here? 
One more thing...
Superunknown is the #1 album in the country right now(Itunes).
Hopefully they're all listening to more than just Black Hole Sun.
