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Re: US Politics Thread
Apparently Obama and Trump talked after all this and are cool again, mixed signals, yet again.
The leaps in logic are astounding and the free passes you give Trump on his behavior are too frequent to count.
Obama really needs to watch his behavior while Trump shits all over anyone who disagrees with him.
How you reconcile this logic is beyond me. We all have to take the high road while our president-elect takes the low?
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: US Politics Thread
Barry expelling 35 Russians & ordering sanctions.
+ UN/Israel resolution.
He's having a good week.
Re: US Politics Thread
Barry expelling 35 Russians & ordering sanctions.
+ UN/Israel resolution.
He's having a good week.
johnny check out Screenwipe 2016 on iplayer if you didn't watch it yesterday.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: US Politics Thread
Barry expelling 35 Russians & ordering sanctions.
+ UN/Israel resolution.
He's having a good week.
He grows a spine in the final 3 weeks of presidency. Good for him... lol
Re: US Politics Thread
How Trump Made Russia's Hacking More Effective
It was the president-elect’s hyperbolic characterizations of the pilfered material that turned routine documents into the stuff of scandal.
“It’s all just an attempt to delegitimize Donald Trump.” That’s the argument you hear from Trump supporters each time new information comes to light about how hard Russian spy services worked to damage Hillary Clinton. You heard it again on Thursday.
The Trump supporters are 100 percent right: The information is delegitimizing. The president-elect of the United States reportedly owes his office in considerable part to illegal clandestine activities in his favor conducted by a hostile, foreign spy service. It’s hard to imagine a crisis of presidential legitimacy more extreme than that. But that’s no argument against airing this information. It’s precisely why the information must be aired.
Vladimir Putin took a fearful risk. If the Electoral College had taken a slightly different bounce on November 8, Putin would now be facing an enraged President-elect Hillary Clinton. Putin had every reason to expect that he probably would end up facing a President Clinton. Yet he took the gamble anyway, apparently doing something none of his Soviet predecessors had ever dared to do: mount a clandestine espionage and disinformation campaign on behalf of one candidate for U.S. president, and against another.
The word “clandestine” is the key term here. In every election, foreign governments have their preferred candidates. It was no secret in 2004 that America’s French and German allies hoped George W. Bush would lose, or that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu felt the same way about President Obama in 2012. Those allies made their wishes known through the familiar and lawful method of grumbling to sympathetic American journalists about the awfulness of the incumbent administration. What they did not do was organize their spy agencies to break the law of the United States. But that is evidently what Russia did—and it seems to have worked.
Obama pledged today that before he leaves office, the American people will learn more fully how the Russians did it.
This will be important to know. But there is something else important to keep in mind.
The content of the Russian-hacked emails was actually remarkably unexplosive. Probably the biggest news was that Hillary Clinton had expressed herself in favor of a hemispheric common market in speeches to Wall Street executives. Otherwise, we learned from them that some people at the Democratic National Committee favored a lifelong Democrat for their party’s nomination over a socialist interloper who had joined the party for his own convenience. We learned that many Democrats, including Chelsea Clinton, disapproved of the ethical shortcomings of some of the people in Bill Clinton’s inner circle. We learned that Hillary Clinton acknowledged differences between her “public and private” positions on some issues. None of this even remotely corroborated Donald Trump’s wild characterizations of the Russian-hacked, Wikileaks-published material.
Without Trump’s own willingness to make false claims and misuse Russian-provided information, the Wikileaks material would have deflated of its own boringness. The Russian-hacked material did damage because, and only because, Russia found a willing accomplice in the person of Donald J. Trump.
Many questions remain about how the Russian spy services did what they did. That includes Putin’s motives for ordering the operation. But on issues from Crimea to Syria to NATO to the breakup of the European Union, Trump’s publicly expressed views align with Putin’s wishes.
Over Trump’s motives for collaborating so full-throatedly with Russian espionage, there hangs a greater and more disturbing mystery—a mystery that Trump seems in no hurry to dispel. And maybe he is wise to leave the mystery in place: as delegitimizing as it is, it’s very possible the truth would be even worse.
DAVID FRUM is a senior editor at The Atlantic and the chairman of Policy Exchange. In 2001-2002, he was a speechwriter for President George W. Bush.
Re: US Politics Thread
johndivney wrote:Barry expelling 35 Russians & ordering sanctions.
+ UN/Israel resolution.
He's having a good week.He grows a spine in the final 3 weeks of presidency. Good for him... lol
I know...must especially suck for you since Vlady is now your second favorite person in the world, only to the Donald...
Re: US Politics Thread
How Trump Made Russia's Hacking More Effective
It was the president-elect’s hyperbolic characterizations of the pilfered material that turned routine documents into the stuff of scandal.
“It’s all just an attempt to delegitimize Donald Trump.” That’s the argument you hear from Trump supporters each time new information comes to light about how hard Russian spy services worked to damage Hillary Clinton. You heard it again on Thursday.
The Trump supporters are 100 percent right: The information is delegitimizing. The president-elect of the United States reportedly owes his office in considerable part to illegal clandestine activities in his favor conducted by a hostile, foreign spy service. It’s hard to imagine a crisis of presidential legitimacy more extreme than that. But that’s no argument against airing this information. It’s precisely why the information must be aired.
Vladimir Putin took a fearful risk. If the Electoral College had taken a slightly different bounce on November 8, Putin would now be facing an enraged President-elect Hillary Clinton. Putin had every reason to expect that he probably would end up facing a President Clinton. Yet he took the gamble anyway, apparently doing something none of his Soviet predecessors had ever dared to do: mount a clandestine espionage and disinformation campaign on behalf of one candidate for U.S. president, and against another.
The word “clandestine” is the key term here. In every election, foreign governments have their preferred candidates. It was no secret in 2004 that America’s French and German allies hoped George W. Bush would lose, or that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu felt the same way about President Obama in 2012. Those allies made their wishes known through the familiar and lawful method of grumbling to sympathetic American journalists about the awfulness of the incumbent administration. What they did not do was organize their spy agencies to break the law of the United States. But that is evidently what Russia did—and it seems to have worked.
Obama pledged today that before he leaves office, the American people will learn more fully how the Russians did it.
This will be important to know. But there is something else important to keep in mind.
The content of the Russian-hacked emails was actually remarkably unexplosive. Probably the biggest news was that Hillary Clinton had expressed herself in favor of a hemispheric common market in speeches to Wall Street executives. Otherwise, we learned from them that some people at the Democratic National Committee favored a lifelong Democrat for their party’s nomination over a socialist interloper who had joined the party for his own convenience. We learned that many Democrats, including Chelsea Clinton, disapproved of the ethical shortcomings of some of the people in Bill Clinton’s inner circle. We learned that Hillary Clinton acknowledged differences between her “public and private” positions on some issues. None of this even remotely corroborated Donald Trump’s wild characterizations of the Russian-hacked, Wikileaks-published material.
Without Trump’s own willingness to make false claims and misuse Russian-provided information, the Wikileaks material would have deflated of its own boringness. The Russian-hacked material did damage because, and only because, Russia found a willing accomplice in the person of Donald J. Trump.
Many questions remain about how the Russian spy services did what they did. That includes Putin’s motives for ordering the operation. But on issues from Crimea to Syria to NATO to the breakup of the European Union, Trump’s publicly expressed views align with Putin’s wishes.
Over Trump’s motives for collaborating so full-throatedly with Russian espionage, there hangs a greater and more disturbing mystery—a mystery that Trump seems in no hurry to dispel. And maybe he is wise to leave the mystery in place: as delegitimizing as it is, it’s very possible the truth would be even worse.
DAVID FRUM is a senior editor at The Atlantic and the chairman of Policy Exchange. In 2001-2002, he was a speechwriter for President George W. Bush.
but...but...BENGHAZI!!!!! and....and.........E-MAILS!!!!!
Re: US Politics Thread
but...but...BENGHAZI!!!!! and....and.........E-MAILS!!!!!
Hillary was right, Trump is a puppet. Putin played him like a first class stooge.
Obama just put him in check with this move as well. Is Trump now going to take office and snuggle back up with Putin after our intelligence community just told him he was involved with election tampering and Obama purged 35 Russian goons? Trump brushed it off for weeks and weeks and now he can no longer deny it. Lets watch as Trump cozies back up to his Russian pals and his supporters just shrug it off. What a bunch of first rate clowns: Trump, his Fox News apologists and his supporters. Obama was right, Reagan would be rolling over in his grave right now.
Re: US Politics Thread
johndivney wrote:Barry expelling 35 Russians & ordering sanctions.
+ UN/Israel resolution.
He's having a good week.johnny check out Screenwipe 2016 on iplayer if you didn't watch it yesterday.
Ronnie O'Sullivan playing VR snooker.
