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- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: US Politics Thread
Right, Hillary helping the poor out of the goodness of her heart. I'm sure even democrats will struggle to believe that.
When you listen to the tape you can hear Hillary did a hell of a job to get the evidence thrown out, forcing a plea deal. If that's not getting your client off I don't know what is. No, obviously she is not in charge of sentencing, but she did her job and he walked for time already served. And now she remembers the case fondly because it helped her career.
Not a scandal in my book. I expect that is how most lawyers talk in private. But since macho talk in private is now suddenly a big deal to determine the fitness of a Presidential candidate I figured it was time to bring it up.
Hillary was involved in giving free legal advice to the poor when she was in college, when I believe she was still a republican, and continued doing pro bono work for the poor when she worked for one of the most prestigious law firms in Arkansas. Please reads this:
Every Lawyer’s Duty?
By Elizabeth A. Wolford
Upon entering law practice, few attorneys, I suspect, aspire to represent clients whose conduct or actions are repulsive or violate the lawyer’s beliefs. Criminal defendants may be charged with morally revolting crimes, from serial murder to terrorism to sexual abuse. Certainly no respectable attorney would endorse this type of behavior.
Yet the Sixth Amendment dictates that all criminal defendants—even those charged with the most heinous crimes—are entitled to the right to assistance of counsel. Attorneys are the guardians of the legal system. When admitted to practice, lawyers take an oath to uphold the Constitution and to discharge their duties faithfully. That oath is not qualified by “only if I really want to” or “unless the client or case is unpopular” or “only if it won’t impact my ability to make my law school loan payments.”
Attorneys are morally and ethically obligated to take on difficult cases and clients exactly because the willingness to do so is fundamental to the integrity of our judicial system. Our democratic society depends upon the rule of law, which is itself based upon an effective and fair judicial system. Lawyers play a vital role in ensuring that the rule of law is followed and the system of justice, fair. If lawyers refuse to participate actively in that judicial system, or to participate only with those cases or clients they personally support, the entire system falls at risk.
The assumption that somebody else will take the case is no excuse for a lawyer’s unwillingness to get involved. Each attorney has an individual responsibility to live up to the expectations and duties of the profession.
Some may suggest that no attorney carries an obligation to take on personally upsetting cases. Surely, however, those attorneys who represent controversial clients or issues do not necessarily embrace the alleged conduct or endorse the alleged behavior. But they do embrace the fundamental principles underlying our justice system and Constitution.
It is the rule of law and our judicial system that sets the United States apart from much of the rest of the world. As Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor warned in the recent Supreme Court decision in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, 124 S. Ct. 2633 (2004), involving an American citizen who was detained as an enemy combatant, “It is during our most challenging and uncertain moments that our Nation’s commitment to due process is most severely tested; and it is in those times that we must preserve our commitment at home to the principles for which we fight abroad.”
Re: US Politics Thread
TheMole wrote:Smoking Guns wrote:A true libertarian would argue that the unborn child has rights and freedoms... you act as if these women are removing their appendix.... This is not like getting fake tits or anything else dealing with body parts they were born with... This is about killing an unborn living child.
But it isn't an "unborn child" in more than 99% of the abortion cases, it's a fetus (or often even just an embryo). Those are not people, they are much more similar to an appendix than you might realize. It has the potential to become a person, but it isn't a person yet at that stage. Using the term "unborn child" is therefor not really conducive to having an honest conversation about this. It's a non-technical term that is laden with emotions and simply isn't accurate. A fetus exhibits none of the traits we associated with being a person until around week 16.
Bro, a LOT of abortions are done after 16 weeks, let alone 20 weeks
From what I researched, and what is known, 1%, or over 15,000, abortions are performed after 20 weeks annually in the U.S. And from Fox News research: "Of the 1.6 million abortions performed in the U.S. each year, 91 percent are performed during the first trimester (12 or fewer weeks' gestation); 9 percent are performed in the second trimester (24 or fewer weeks' gestation); and only about 100 are performed in the third trimester (more than 24 weeks' gestation), approximately .01 percent of all abortions performed." Again, I'm pro choice, but I really, really, really hate the idea of late term abortion, and I personally think that it should have to be extrodinary circumstances for this procedure to happen.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: US Politics Thread
Smoking Guns wrote:TheMole wrote:But it isn't an "unborn child" in more than 99% of the abortion cases, it's a fetus (or often even just an embryo). Those are not people, they are much more similar to an appendix than you might realize. It has the potential to become a person, but it isn't a person yet at that stage. Using the term "unborn child" is therefor not really conducive to having an honest conversation about this. It's a non-technical term that is laden with emotions and simply isn't accurate. A fetus exhibits none of the traits we associated with being a person until around week 16.
Bro, a LOT of abortions are done after 16 weeks, let alone 20 weeks
From what I researched, and what is known, 1%, or over 15,000, abortions are performed after 20 weeks annually in the U.S. And from Fox News research: "Of the 1.6 million abortions performed in the U.S. each year, 91 percent are performed during the first trimester (12 or fewer weeks' gestation); 9 percent are performed in the second trimester (24 or fewer weeks' gestation); and only about 100 are performed in the third trimester (more than 24 weeks' gestation), approximately .01 percent of all abortions performed." Again, I'm pro choice, but I really, really, really hate the idea of late term abortion, and I personally think that it should have to be extrodinary circumstances for this procedure to happen.
So why get worked up about it? You just said less than .01% occur during the third trimester. It's just like with firearms. Same number of assault rifles are used in crimes, but the media sensationalizes them, so the mouth breathers get upset. Don't be a mouth breather.
Re: US Politics Thread
misterID wrote:Smoking Guns wrote:Bro, a LOT of abortions are done after 16 weeks, let alone 20 weeks
From what I researched, and what is known, 1%, or over 15,000, abortions are performed after 20 weeks annually in the U.S. And from Fox News research: "Of the 1.6 million abortions performed in the U.S. each year, 91 percent are performed during the first trimester (12 or fewer weeks' gestation); 9 percent are performed in the second trimester (24 or fewer weeks' gestation); and only about 100 are performed in the third trimester (more than 24 weeks' gestation), approximately .01 percent of all abortions performed." Again, I'm pro choice, but I really, really, really hate the idea of late term abortion, and I personally think that it should have to be extrodinary circumstances for this procedure to happen.
So why get worked up about it? You just said less than .01% occur during the third trimester. It's just like with firearms. Same number of assault rifles are used in crimes, but the media sensationalizes them, so the mouth breathers get upset. Don't be a mouth breather.
What are you talking about? SG is spamming the board about this, he's worked up about it, I was responding that his stats were wrong. Read. Don't be a knuckle dragger.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: US Politics Thread
I was agreeing with others that the late term abortions were a very small percentage. But I also noted that many babies have survived a 20 week birth so 2 things to take away:
1) Babies do develop faster than people think
2) Late term abortions are not common but do happen
3) There are about 10 states in the US that still allow late term abortions
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: US Politics Thread
I can't wait for the debate tonight!
This shit will blow over soon.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: US Politics Thread
I never knew Elenor Mondale was also a mistress to Bill Clinton.... damn and she died at 51 years of age back in 2011. She was pretty. Apparently Bill was hitting it and Monica show up and they wouldn't let her in and she threw a huge fit. According to the security guard outside the Oval Office.
