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Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
buzzsaw wrote:Actually that's exactly what it does. Society gets to choose what is acceptable otherwise there would be no laws. For example killing someone could be completely comfortable for someone. Does that mean they can do it when they want to?
Bad example, killing someone singles out a specific person and does a bit more than just "hurt their feelings". James' niece necking with another girl has zero real impact on him.
buzzsaw wrote:Or in a more relevant comparison a perv can go into a woman's bathroom and claim to identify as a woman and that's okay as long as they don't assault someone?
Lesbians can do that today... what's the difference?
buzzsaw wrote:It's fine to make the women uncomfortable in that case to protect the small amount of transgender people? It's not ok to make a transgender person uncomfortable by giving them a separate bathroom to use but it's okay to make everyone else uncomfortable so they aren't?
It's not about protecting a specific group, it's about not forcing ones own morality upon the rest of society. What I'm saying is that I don't necessarily care any more or less about transgenders than I do about other people, and I don't care if either of those get offended. But neither should be protected from being offended by the law because that would limit everyones freedom of expression. Society's norms change over time because we have the freedom to challenge the status quo, and that's a good thing, and I will argue in favor of it every single time.
Omg no. Society has every right to force morality on the rest of society. Every right. Not just a right, it's an expectation. Otherwise you have a society with no law because every single law on the books is forcing morality on people. Every single one.
What you're really saying is you get to choose what can and can't be morally forced on people. You say murder is a bad example because it's against a singled out individual. Fine. Killing one person is wrong but the Orlando shooting is fine because it didn't single any one person out?
That's the problem. Someone or some society always gets to choose. That can and does change over time, but you couldn't be more wrong with your stance.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
Omg no. Society has every right to force morality on the rest of society. Every right. Not just a right, it's an expectation. Otherwise you have a society with no law because every single law on the books is forcing morality on people. Every single one.
Ugh... seriously? That's not what I said. An individual does not get to choose what's right for another person. Of course society decides laws, but the guiding principle should be personal freedom, which means that you don't just forbid things because they make someone uncomfortable.
What you're really saying is you get to choose what can and can't be morally forced on people.
No, what I'm saying is that I don't get to choose, but you don't either!
You say murder is a bad example because it's against a singled out individual. Fine. Killing one person is wrong but the Orlando shooting is fine because it didn't single any one person out?
That's so besides the point. Fine, let me rephrase: murder is a bad example because it directly and physically impacts another person or group of persons. Let me give an example of what you're saying that is actually a good analogy: you're effectively saying that insulting someone should be illegal, because it hurts their feelings. I'm saying fuck your feelings, man up and live your own life.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
TheMole wrote:And... has anyone come up with a real issue with transgender bathroom usage yet? Something a bit more solid than "it makes me uncomfortable"?
...
Maybe because it's a bonafide mental illness? Maybe because ideas like "gender fluidity" are complete bullshit and not based on science. Maybe someone should need more than their word before they walk into a locker room filled with women.
I can play this game too, but I have science and medicine on my side. If you want to argue that all bathrooms should be unisex and people have no expectation of privacy or safety, make that argument. Just be prepared to have your ass handed to you. When your argument literally relies on magic and fantasy, you've already lost.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
TheMole wrote:TheMole wrote:And... has anyone come up with a real issue with transgender bathroom usage yet? Something a bit more solid than "it makes me uncomfortable"?
...
Maybe because it's a bonafide mental illness? Maybe because ideas like "gender fluidity" are complete bullshit and not based on science. Maybe someone should need more than their word before they walk into a locker room filled with women.
I can play this game too, but I have science and medicine on my side. If you want to argue that all bathrooms should be unisex and people have no expectation of privacy or safety, make that argument. Just be prepared to have your ass handed to you. When your argument literally relies on magic and fantasy, you've already lost.
Randall Flag I just laughed my ass off.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
Maybe because it's a bonafide mental illness? Maybe because ideas like "gender fluidity" are complete bullshit and not based on science.
You'll have to make up your mind, it can't be both at the same time! And even if you're right those are still not issues for anyone except the person him/herself...
Also... science: http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic … der-brain/
Not conclusive, but hints strongly at a biological difference.
For what it's worth, I think everyone deserves their privacy and I'm also not saying transgenders should be swinging their dicks in other people's faces either (if they're biologically male). I hate using mens rooms where there's no dividers between urinals too. But I'm not opposed to unisex bathrooms myself. I'd just prefer them to be all stalls then. As a matter of fact, in many countries around the world bars and restaurants do this already.
I'm just wondering... I've never been in a woman's bathroom in the US... do they not have stalls in there? Do the ladies just hang their asses over a trough with all their kibbles 'n bits out in the open? I highly doubt it...
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
buzzsaw wrote:Omg no. Society has every right to force morality on the rest of society. Every right. Not just a right, it's an expectation. Otherwise you have a society with no law because every single law on the books is forcing morality on people. Every single one.
Ugh... seriously? That's not what I said. An individual does not get to choose what's right for another person. Of course society decides laws, but the guiding principle should be personal freedom, which means that you don't just forbid things because they make someone uncomfortable.
buzzsaw wrote:What you're really saying is you get to choose what can and can't be morally forced on people.
No, what I'm saying is that I don't get to choose, but you don't either!
buzzsaw wrote:You say murder is a bad example because it's against a singled out individual. Fine. Killing one person is wrong but the Orlando shooting is fine because it didn't single any one person out?
That's so besides the point. Fine, let me rephrase: murder is a bad example because it directly and physically impacts another person or group of persons. Let me give an example of what you're saying that is actually a good analogy: you're effectively saying that insulting someone should be illegal, because it hurts their feelings. I'm saying fuck your feelings, man up and live your own life.
Tell that to the transgender people that refuse the option of their own bathroom because that makes them uncomfortable.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
Randall Flagg wrote:Maybe because it's a bonafide mental illness? Maybe because ideas like "gender fluidity" are complete bullshit and not based on science.
You'll have to make up your mind, it can't be both at the same time! And even if you're right those are still not issues for anyone except the person him/herself...
Also... science: http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic … der-brain/
Not conclusive, but hints strongly at a biological difference.For what it's worth, I think everyone deserves their privacy and I'm also not saying transgenders should be swinging their dicks in other people's faces either (if they're biologically male). I hate using mens rooms where there's no dividers between urinals too. But I'm not opposed to unisex bathrooms myself. I'd just prefer them to be all stalls then. As a matter of fact, in many countries around the world bars and restaurants do this already.
I'm just wondering... I've never been in a woman's bathroom in the US... do they not have stalls in there? Do the ladies just hang their asses over a trough with all their kibbles 'n bits out in the open? I highly doubt it...
Gender dysphoria is a very real, observed and documented mental illness. People who think they change between man and women or some made up 3rd option at will have no basis in science, and even they did have an established disorder, it doesn't make their belief true.
You can't change your sex. It's in your DNA. You can mutilate your body and take hormones to help you pretend you're the opposite sex, but you'll never change. Those who think you can change your sex by taking a pill and having surgery are entertaining fantasy. I can no more become a woman than I can become a Jedi or a dragon.
I don't even know what gender means. Again, pseudo science. Sex is binary. You either have an X or Y chromosome. End of story. But I've yet to find anyone who can tell me what gender means objectively, and when we use common sense to explain it, the progressives flip out. Tell me something that is unique to one gender? Something that only a "man" has or can do. If you said functioning testes, you just removed all your transgender friends and anyone who suffered an accident or was born sterile/deformed. So because no one can define what gender means, how can a "man" feel like a "woman"? Seems like gender is just another bullshit word crafted by sociologist to pretend they're just aren't a lot of really weird and fucked up people out there.
That doesn't mean that someone who is different should be harmed, abused or treated differently under the law. It just means we shouldn't legalize the tooth fairy so a bunch of mentally ill people can pretend they're no longer ill. Would you support a law that says Ebola patients who don't identify as having Ebola should be treated as free from Ebola and require everyone else to play along? The emperor's not wearing any clothing, but the DNC is trying to pass laws that require we all pretend he's clothed.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
But I've yet to find anyone who can tell me what gender means objectively, and when we use common sense to explain it, the progressives flip out. Tell me something that is unique to one gender? Something that only a "man" has or can do. If you said functioning testes, you just removed all your transgender friends and anyone who suffered an accident or was born sterile/deformed. So because no one can define what gender means, how can a "man" feel like a "woman"? Seems like gender is just another bullshit word crafted by sociologist to pretend they're just aren't a lot of really weird and fucked up people out there.
Great point. By the same measure we cannot say objectively say what a mental illness is, unless there is a biological difference.
Would you support a law that says Ebola patients who don't identify as having Ebola should be treated as free from Ebola and require everyone else to play along?
No I wouldn't support a law like that because it would lead to a lot of people dying or getting hurt.
I don't see how transgender people could hurt or kill me though so I'm okay with them being integrated into society.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
Randall Flagg wrote:Would you support a law that says Ebola patients who don't identify as having Ebola should be treated as free from Ebola and require everyone else to play along?
No I wouldn't support a law like that because it would lead to a lot of people dying or getting hurt.
I don't see how transgender people could hurt or kill me though so I'm okay with them being integrated into society.
I spent hundreds of words arguing this, but you've nailed it with these two simple sentences... thanks.
