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Re: Half of CD vocals done in a week?
Robin left in August '99, and said vocals were still to be done.
"I'm doing the vocals. I'm about three-quarters of the way through, and it's a very difficult process for me." (Axl, MTV, 11/08/99)
"'As far as I can tell,' says GnR's manager Doug Goldstein, 'we are now 99% musically done and 80% vocals done [in November '99]. I see the record being done Feb or March for a summer release.'" (Rolling Stone, 01/00)
In the space of a week, Axl whipped out 8 or more vocal tracks - 75-80% of the entire album suggests the total amount was about 11 (out of 14).
Oklahoma was presented as an instrumental to Rolling Stone, while TIL, again, lacked Beavan's input. Old song titles that do fit the bill include Ides of March, Atlas Shrugged - and Oh My God.
Re: Half of CD vocals done in a week?
How does this stack up with the Illusions? Didn't he spend a long time on that, not being satisfied with the result?
If he only spent a few weeks laying down vocals for CD I guess the man is a bigger genius than I thought. I wouldn't exactly call the end result rushed, more like brilliant. What doesn't (sometimes) work on that album is the band.
Re: Half of CD vocals done in a week?
How does this stack up with the Illusions? Didn't he spend a long time on that, not being satisfied with the result?
HTGTH suggests the bulk of UYI was recorded in between June '90 and early '91. 7-8 months in total, and this is including Axl.
We rehearse 36 songs in a month and record the whole LP, all the basics, in five weeks - I mean all the guitars, bass and acoustical stuff; the vocals took a little longer. - src
"Matt and Dizzy had never played with us as a complete band, because Axl doesn't come to rehearsals," Duff observes. "They'd never seen Axl sing with us."
It certainly took longer than a week. Coma was particularly tough to crack.
While laying down vocals for "Coma" (and other songs during the period of recording at The Record Plant in Hollywood), Axl physically moved his bed into the studio. He also had a punching bag brought in, as well as two pinball machines - Kiss and Elton John.
I tried to write that song for a year, and couldn't. l went to write it at the studio and passed out. l woke up two hours later and sat down and wrote the whole end of the song, like, just off the top of my head. It was like, don't even know what's coming out, man, but it's coming. l think one of the best things that I've ever written was maybe the end segment of the song "Coma." It just poured out. -src
Curiously, that was a bit like Catcher.
I read the book. I fell into a deep dark sleep. Went to the studio and sang as a joke what I refer to as the Holden parts off the top of my head... When I got home... I threw my book away... Not in any dramatic way, but more like cleaning off the dinner table.
5-6 weeks in total for 30 or so tracks?
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Half of CD vocals done in a week?
It sort of puts the waste of time into perspective. To think that at times the man is able to come in and lay out vocals of CD standard in mere days. It sort of brings home the insanity of letting business disputes and creative fear and whatever else eat up 15 years. Also things like the Sailing cover - seemingly a casual throw away moment for the band - but one of the most amazing sounding things in years - it makes you realise how much amazing stuff could exist if Axl's problems were just a little bit easier to manage.
Re: Half of CD vocals done in a week?
Axl had the bike photo to begin with. My understanding was that he had had it in mind for the cover for a couple of years prior to the album's release.
A couple years? THis album cover was mentioned in 2002 and likely would have been the cover in 2001 had the album not been rejected.
I was blown away when we saw the bike cover. It was even worse than the fan made covers made. It also hammered the point home even more to hardcore fans about how much of a waste 2002-08 really was....and all the errors in the liner notes made it even worse. Harcores knew even before hearing it that it was simply the 2001-02 album tinkered to death beyond recognition.
I really wish Axl had just turned in the 2001 album. They would have accepted it with the Best Buy deal in place. That album was the real Chinese Democracy.
The irony is that the actual work took hardly any time.
It's truly amazing when you look back on it. I remember in 2005 during that silent year.... fans thinking he was in the studio hard at work daily working on his masterpiece to "bury AFD" when in reality he hadn't touched the project in a coon's age and the 2002 lineup hadn't been in the same room together since the 02 tour had been aborted. I remember when the 06 tour was about to start Dizzy admitted they hadn't seen each other in four years.
99.9% of the CD material was recorded 99-01. I remember Bumblefoot once saying there will never be an album like CD again. He's right.
smart money would've mastered it early and put the extra effort on CD2.
Agreed. The first album should have been scrapped or simply placed on the backburner and have the 2001-04 lineup focus on whatever is left or better yet...record new material.
I guess there was no point though. Once they noticed he was no longer laying down vocals for tracks after 2001 they could see the writing on the wall. They were boxed in to the project. Anything you record simply gets added to songs he's already finished.
If he only spent a few weeks laying down vocals for CD I guess the man is a bigger genius than I thought. I wouldn't exactly call the end result rushed, more like brilliant.
I think at least half that album needed new vocals. Not that he sucks or anything but some songs are lacking in that department.
He was lazy. Period. Soundgarden whipped up this song and Cornell put some vocals for it.
Listen to it. At least a minute...
Imagine if he never went back to it again, the band only has that vocal take to work with and simply added more bells and whistles to it. We'd never hear this....
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Half of CD vocals done in a week?
Which songs need new vocals?
Only thing that comes to mind for me was that IRS was sung in 2006 with a lot more rasp and anger in the last verse...the rest of the album is pretty bad ass vocally.
Re: Half of CD vocals done in a week?
The Blues
Madagascar
Riad
Prostitute
That's off the top of my head. Maybe add Scraped to that list as well. CITR...as great as that demo was, could use a fresh take as well.
Don't see a problem with IRS.....that scream was out of this world.
Re: Half of CD vocals done in a week?
I really wish Axl had just turned in the 2001 album. They would have accepted it with the Best Buy deal in place. That album was the real Chinese Democracy.
Good point. What was redone, mostly, was Paul Huge's stuff. Ron recalled a lot of the rhythm guitars seemed 'mechanical'. As Fortus had recorded his stuff in less than a week, Ron was more likely pointing towards Paul.
Of course, some of Bucket's stuff got shafted due to him being an absentee. This is the emotional tissue between Axl and the songs - every time he heard the old material, Slash was creeping up in his mind. One reason for re-recording some parts was airbrushing disturbing memories, apparently.
I remember in 2005 during that silent year.... fans thinking he was in the studio hard at work daily working on his masterpiece to "bury AFD" when in reality he hadn't touched the project in a coon's age
After, say, the 2002 tour, Axl more than likely took a holiday. That's when the shipped sailed. By June 2003, the label shuffle had folded MCA Records into restructured Geffen, and the new company was also given the price-bull of the old days - Guns. This was Axl, coming off a disastrous comeback tour without an album ready.
In July, Axl held a meeting with someone in a Vegas club and previewed tracks (possibly IRS, Better, TWAT) to someone he wanted to work with. That may be so. A typical Guns idea of being inconspicuous, going to a club a few blocks off the street on vampire hours and blaring the sooper-sekret tracks on the PA. On the other hand, it could've been a Sinatra moment for Axl, minding the shady background of the place.
Any case, August. Geffen say they'll put a Best Of out. At the very same time, Mike Piazza got the IRS disc in the mail. It had three tracks (IRS, Better, TWAT). Three weeks later, Piazza happened upon Eddie Trunk's shows, disc in tow. It read 'Guns N' Roses. I.R.S.' so they what it was. Hell, they'd both been backstage at the Garden show the past December. They were hardly casual fans - they were more familiar with the '02 band than most fans.
It's interesting to note the music started gradually getting out to the open after Guns were brought back to Geffen. This wrangling went on - in October, Geffen settled on a DVD re-release of the early videos. November, Rock in Rio Lisbon was confirmed. You can see a pattern of Axl taking reactionary steps along the way, to convince his old label - with new faces - that he's seriously putting out an album and touring.
They were going through a lot of trouble, at least partially spurred by Geffen's insistence on a Best Of, so a proposed tour is planned (again) without an album. They need Bucket to come in. But Bucket was doing the Bill Murray - wonder if he, too, had a 1-800-number? In any case, Axl's lawyers are fuming at him over voicemail. Hardly a year has passed from the brief and bizarre tour. All the hostility must've been getting into Bucket.
By New Year, Geffen pulled the plug, and this 'one strike and you're out' policy was an entirely new situation for Axl.
This fallout with the label, along with other lawsuits and litigations, took a lot of time to suss out. However, the project was soon set up at Curt Cuomo's studio. Pitman began working as something of an A&R man. He brought in Patti Hood to record the harp on TIL. Caram was in charge at the studio. Pitman was also the one who contacted Ron and working on getting him into the studio. Only Pitman failed to say, 'Shut up about this - they're anxious mofos'.
A lot of the 2004-5 era was therefore about waiting and putting things back together again. More things were added on the songs, and they would've been mixed, up to a degree. But the studio was now costly, even on Sanctuary dime. And who was in a hurry, anyway, as long as the checks arrived on time?
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Half of CD vocals done in a week?
The Blues
Madagascar
Riad
ProstituteThat's off the top of my head. Maybe add Scraped to that list as well. CITR...as great as that demo was, could use a fresh take as well.
Don't see a problem with IRS.....that scream was out of this world.
The scream is amazing - it's the last chorus after that - it's fine as it is - but then listen to the live version from 2006 Rock Am Ring and you hear him do the same inflections in full raspy scream and it's so much more passionate than the studio take.
Prostitute has issues but it's not the vocals, it's more about the guitar to me, don't think Bucket was the man for that job. Out of the whole album this is the one that feels unfinished and bucket's parts are cool in their own way but don't go with the song at all. The feel completely cut and pasted.
Riad has amazing vocals - it's one of Axl's great takes - try singing it in the shower - it's harder than it looks!
Madagascar is ok as long as you are ok with the creative decision to add the "old hurt" voice at the start - I can see that's not for everyone.
Mostly the issue with Maddy and Scraped and the album isn't the vocals it's the terrible mix. The "I would have never had it so far" parts at the end of scraped are so blurred in the mix it's absurd.
