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Re: The Wrestling thread
It wasn't one of the worst WMs of all time, it wasn't good though either.
- Reigns was loudly booed by most of the people there. Commentators no sold it and the match was dull.
- The best match was probably the women's title match.
- Lesnar/Ambrose was just okay, but not what people were expecting. It was also a little over 10 minutes too for some reason.
- A.J./Jericho was what already happened multiple times on TV. Jericho beat A.J. clean which really makes no sense whatsoever, but okay.
- Shane dived off the Hell in The Cell and landed through the table. I know people love the spot, but the match was absurd and silly. Shane can't do a non silly looking punch and watching Undertaker sell for Shane was too much off a suspension of disbelieve. This match made no sense, I guess Shane just wanted to let his kids see him have a match...
Everything else was filler.
God bless you for sitting through 6 hours of this shit so the rest of us don't have to. HHH-Reigns was just a bad match any way you look at it. HHH can't really elevate any match he is in where his opponent is shittier than him. Stick him in there with someone who can go and he can at least try to keep up. I saw a clip of that Shane spot and it just seemed kind of dumb and pointless.
Was HHH-Reigns worse than the snoozer at 25 between HHH/Orton?
At least RAW should be entertaining tomorrow. I can't wait to hear more Reigns boos.
Re: The Wrestling thread
It wasn't one of the worst WMs of all time, it wasn't good though either.
- Reigns was loudly booed by most of the people there. Commentators no sold it and the match was dull.
- The best match was probably the women's title match.
- Lesnar/Ambrose was just okay, but not what people were expecting. It was also a little over 10 minutes too for some reason.
- A.J./Jericho was what already happened multiple times on TV. Jericho beat A.J. clean which really makes no sense whatsoever, but okay.
- Shane dived off the Hell in The Cell and landed through the table. I know people love the spot, but the match was absurd and silly. Shane can't do a non silly looking punch and watching Undertaker sell for Shane was too much off a suspension of disbelieve. This match made no sense, I guess Shane just wanted to let his kids see him have a match...
Everything else was filler.
My lord.
If wrestling is going to survive I think they need to go back to the drawing board. While I don't think it can work...try to take it back to its roots while they have a snowball's chance in hell. I don't think it can be fixed but they should try.
Commentators no sold it
I long for the days of Heenan/Monsoon...Mcmahon/Ventura...or Schiavone/Crockett
Crockett used to sell to the point it sounded like a home invasion/gang rape in progress. I'll never forget him continuously screaming "Tony!!! Tony!!! Tony!!..." for like 2 minutes straight. How on earth Schiavone stood there next to him listening to that I'll never know.
Re: The Wrestling thread
That's part of the problem. Everyone and their grandmother today now have full confirmation it's all fake. It was always obvious, but there was always that little bit of doubt.
Then the resurgence of wrasslin' in the late 90's happened during the Attitude/Austin-era which gave birth to an edgier version of what used to exist in the underground back in the day, but on a larger scale.
Again... there was a little bit of mystery. We all knew it was fake, but there was a slight doubt of certain things.
It kept it interesting and fun. Then people starting doing behind-the-scenes specials to expose how fake wrestling was and how all the moves were pulled off kayfabe in order to stop backyard wrestling, which was skyrockting in popularity in the late 90s/early 2000s.
All of these videos have now lived on through YouTube. Anybody can look up the in's and out's of a proper work. Without compelling principles (where's the next Austin? the next Rock? the next Taker?). None of these guys will ever be found, because Vince won't let the real guys work, and always dicks them around (see Punk who was the next revolution, if it wasn't for the fact his move-set fucking sucked, and his finisher was gay)
Vince/Steph kept working all these old guys to the bone, thinking they can just work them to another buy. These guys are fucking over. Been LONG OVER. Time to let the next gen make it or break it.
And like has been said before, they've made alot of business decisions to survive, but also fucked themselves in the process. For one, they've got a mega-toy deal from Hasbro that keeps them in tons of money revenue, but also hamstrings the show to be PG for kids. Another mistake, earlier mentioned, was Steph firing all the wresting writers and bringing in reality TV writers who don't know jack fucking shit about wrestling works and used them to find the next big reality trend. It doesn't work. It can't work. Another thing is, they are trying to sell stuff the audience has already decided doesn't make any fucking sense. Don't insult your audience's intelligence by trying to oversell a poor work. If the work "works", the audience WILL WANT TO BELIEVE IT. It amazes me the McMahons still have no concept of this, yet Vince was the brainchild of the Mr. McMahon character to begin with and the legendary Austin/McMahon angle. It's like Vince has forgotton how his own work worked.
TNA/Impact on the other hand, is the complete opposite problem, and still not working it right. They continue to try to work wrestling as if it's 1999/2000 during the Monday Night Wars with WWF & WCW, and that time has long since past.
I've long felt the solution, or next big thing for wrestling is a behind the scenes show, on national TV about how a wrestling show is produced and made. The entire thing is done as DEADLY FUCKING SERIOUS. It's a straight shoot. You find out Stephanie is cheating on Triple H, Vince is thinking of firing her, HBK is back on drugs and has a tape that leaks of him cursing Jesus, and Steve Austin is bracing himself with coming out as "gay".
All of it is played as a straight shoot. And work it for awhile. People start to think, "what the fuck?"
The whole time?
It's total fucking kayfabe. But you never let the audience in on it. Wrestlers refuse to work with others, don't want to go on with show, drugs, divas fucking and leaving their mess in the shower... off the fucking wall shit.
If you just listen for 5 seconds for the stuff Jim Cornette tells that went behind the scenes at these wrestling shows, you would not believe the shit that goes on. Dicks in mouths as a "joke".
THAT is what saves wrestling. Embrace reality TV. But they're not doing it right. They've got to go full Larry Sanders Rated-R with it. (RIP Garry)
Re: The Wrestling thread
Great post but...
But you never let the audience in on it.
This is why the Attitude/NWO era killed it. Yeah it was a fresh take on things, I'll give em that, but you cant let the audience know its a joke. This "wink wink" shit never had any chance of long term success.
Here's the other thing that killed it besides Attitude/NWO/death of kayfabe.....the internet. Back in the 90s when I checked some website for wrestling news and saw people in a newgroup debating the results of matches that hadn't even happened yet, I knew it couldn't recover. It also destroyed house shows. Imagine in 1988 being able to get online and find out that while on TV someone is champion, someone else already has the belt at house shows the past few weeks.
There needed to be some sort of middle ground once the internet went mainstream. Both WWF and WCW panicked, had a short term brilliant idea and thought that was the future.
They were wrong.
Your idea sounds extreme but something needs to happen. I don't like the concept of reality TV wrestling but since its already halfway there, like you said...just whole hog it. If it tanks they can simply ditch it and go back to the garbage they've been serving.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Why didnt Taker vs Sting happen? Every year they blow the the chance for the most wanted match in maybe history.
Sting retired at the hall of fame and was injured anyway. He was made to look so bad in his run last year, that it wouldn't have made sense anyway. It would have made more sense than Shane though.
The observer claim it was 94,000 there last night. That breaks the fake Wrestlemania 3 record, but of course they still claimed to have over 101,000 there.
They also appear to have pumped in fake crowd cheers for Reigns as well, because it sounded like the boos were deafening. They definitely muted the audio on crowd chants during the main event. There were Nakamura/Bailey chants.
Oh and this is the new thing;
https://twitter.com/ihatecrayons/status/716779897604087812
There were others like "woooo" ect. They're trying to change what the crowd chants now by putting all that up on the big screen out off camera sight.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: The Wrestling thread
I've been thinking for a while that what we need is LESS.
I think WWE's product is just spread too thin. There's just too much time to fill for the content and the end effect is a lessening of quality.
I find RAW way too long. By the end of the show they're flashing back to a replay of something that they already replied earlier and happened at the start of the show. You sometimes see the same happening like 3 or 4 times on the one night.
I know many feel there's too much talk to the wrestling as well. I actually enjoy some talk to make the characters and so on - but again this comes down to running time for me. Guys come out and talk for 20 minutes to say something that could have been said in 5.
To me it would be like if you took the plot of an episode of a TV series and then doubled or tripled the running time but didn't add new story. The same things happen. They just have to happen slower. It would ruin that series. It's the same principle. Basically we have 12 ppvs a year where stuff needs to be in place for - but we now have hours and hours of between time content to fill up and very little story to put in it.
I'd make raw WAY shorter. Keep it punchy and fast paced. I think the show would then be a lot more interesting. Which I think would make the next generation more interesting, which I think would make the PPVs more interesting.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Lame. The fans always dictated wrestler popularity, now they're trying to control that. It won't work. It sure as shit didn't work for Ryback.
The NWA had major difficulties with this. Flair is supposed to be the dirtiest player in the game yet he's got the crowd on his side most of the time.
Flair was a booker's dream. One of the few wrestlers in history you could have go up against faces or heels and it didn't hurt anyone in the situation.
Making the crowd chant things isn't anything new. It happened in the late 90s as well but obviously this is taking it to a new level.
I know many feel there's too much talk to the wrestling as well. I actually enjoy some talk to make the characters and so on - but again this comes down to running time for me. Guys come out and talk for 20 minutes to say something that could have been said in 5.
Again....this goes back to how wrestling evolved in the late 90s. They NEVER should've started having wrestlers do their skits in the ring. You leave that backstage during the interviews. Any in ring talking before the late 90s usually revolved around a major feud and it rarely happened.
Once they allowed them to start talking in the ring, it was just a natural progression to all talk and no action.
