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Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
The free cell phone thing...started way before Obama btw. It was enacted in 1985 while Reagan was president.
I had forgot about that. Thanks for posting it.
Just one more reason to laugh when some people say Reagan hated poor people. Reagan was as poor as you can get. His childhood was spent living in a shack and his family so poor they had to eat oatmeal burgers because his parents couldn't afford hamburger.....yet he hates the poor. 
I can understand why some people didn't like his presidency but he is up there with the greats and we'll never have another one like him again. God only knows what he would've achieved had he been 20 years younger. Him becoming president in the 80s seems like fate. Right place, right time.
Can you imagine the 80s under Carter and Mondale presidencies, even if you liked them? If you exclude everything else we needed him just to stand up to the Soviet Union. Carter was tongue lashing Russian balls and ass to the point where we were going to be left in the dust.
Rimov if you read this post I mean no disrespect to Russia. I like Russia and I'm actually "pro Putin". Back in 2008 I defended Russia's invasion of Georgia over South Ossetia on several sites. I think the invasion of Ukraine was a mistake but back their war against ISIS in Syria and against Chechen rebels but wish they could unite with us instead of using that war as a way to prop up Assad and establish a more permanent presence in the region.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
Cramer, I posted 2 articles and 3 videos. Are they all wrong?
Yes.
Don't forget too, we had a supply and demand issue. Supply exceeded demand. Which is why many builders went under. Also the banks collapsed and we went into a recession. They all were impacted by each other.
I certainly would not argue with that. There was a domino effect for sure. Supply shot through the roof once the financing was yanked out from under everybody. Prior to that, the only way the majority of buyers could afford these price points was through "creative financing" (liar loans etc.)
The 5 year and 10 year arms with no money down caused a lot of problems. Though good for people with a lot of cash bad ideas for people who are cash poor.
No income verification. No job verification. No normal debt to income ratio consideration. None of it mattered, since it was repackaged and sold with thousands of other loans as a mortgage backed security. They were playing hot potato and they knew it.
I knew plenty of people who had cash back then, who utilized these loans and ended up losing it all. They'd flip one house, pocket the money, then run out and get three more. These were middle-upper middle class people.
I'd also argue that MOST Americans, overwhelmingly, are cash poor. If the stipulation (even today) was that a home buyer must have six months of income in the bank, little to no credit card debt, and zero delinquencies, then nearly everybody would be renting. I also find that when people make more money, they're still broke, they just have nicer shit. Such is the American mindset, conservative or liberal, makes no difference.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
I'd also argue that MOST Americans, overwhelmingly, are cash poor. If the stipulation (even today) was that a home buyer must have six months of income in the bank, little to no credit card debt, and zero delinquencies, then nearly everybody would be renting. I also find that when people make more money, they're still broke, they just have nicer shit. Such is the American mindset, conservative or liberal, makes no difference.
This! And the only way to change this is through regulation, you can't expect the free market to protect the less informed.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
Not everyone needs their own home or free cell phone or free college tuition. It is that mentality that creates this entitlement nanny state that will hurt us for decades to come.
No, what ends up hurting the US is the mentality that everyone who ends up down in the dumps at one point in their lives for whatever reason is an inferior human being that isn't properly contributing back to the economy and therefore should not be given any help or assistance. The country is wasting huge amounts of potential by not providing free college tuition, by ensuring that if you happen to be born and raised in a poor community you goddamn stay there, regardless of your capabilities. While if you happen to be born and raised in a rich environment, you get all the chances you need as long as you can pay for it. And if you really think that
Besides the fact that it is ethically disgusting, it's just plain economically stupid. Free college tuition at roughly $60B is dirt fucking cheap (only 1.6% of the yearly budget), and the returns on that investment are huge with the negative impact of student loans driving consumption up, the intellectual capital build-up, attracting the brightest foreign minds, ...
OFCOURSE there need to be rules and limitations, in even the most socialist European countries you don't get the fuck around on the government's dime, but everyone GETS AT LEAST ONE FUCKING CHANCE to prove what they can contribute to the economy and brain trust, regardless of their background.
You really, really have to stop debating in conservative echo chambers, there's a whole world of countries out there that PROVES that free or near-free college eduction is EASILY affordable and, more than that, economically worthwhile. I don't see a single argument in this thread that supports this whole 'the sky is going to fall if we get nationalized healthcare/free college tuition/better wall street regulations/...' rhetoric.
Can someone explain to me why all those things work in Canada, the UK, Germany, Scandinavia, the Benelux, France, Australia, New Zealand, ... but it wouldn't work in the US?
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
James, I think I went on to show in that Carter debate that he was used unfairly to prop up the Reagan myth, that Reagans best economic years came from Carter's economic team, which evertyone forgets. I cant take the Reagan romanticism, H W Bush was a better president and was saddled with Reagans failings, and sadly that won't come to light until after Bush dies. Here are a few things we need to remember, these are easily available to everyone.
1. Reagan Supplied Weapons to America's Enemies
Reagan armed Saddam Hussein's Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war despite the fact that it was widely known Iraq was using chemical weapons against civilian populations in violation of international law.
2. Reagan Ignored the Atrocities Committed by Saddam Hussein
Even after the whole world condemned Saddam Hussein for using chemical weapons to kill over 5,000 Kurdish civilians in Iraq, the Reagan administration continued to provide weapons and tactical information to Iraq. Iraq used this information to target its enemies with chemical weapons. Reagan even vetoed a UN resolution condemning Iraq.
3. Reagan Illegally Supplied Arms to Both Sides of the Iran-Iraq War
While he was supplying Iraq with weapons, Reagan also armed Iran during the Iran-Iraq War in direct violation of a U.S. law that he had signed.
4. Reagan Caved in to the Demands of Terrorists
After several Americans were taken hostage by terrorists in Lebanon, Reagan provided weapons to Iran in exchange for their release. Despite this concession, ultimately more hostages were taken.
5. Reagan Caved in to the Demands of Terrorists Again
After Reagan sent Marines to Beirut for a peacekeeping mission, a terrorist’s truck bomb killed 241 U.S. Marines. Reagan responded by immediately doing exactly what the terrorists wanted, pulling all the troops out of Beirut.
6. Reagan Was Weak in the War on Terrorism
After the bombing of the US Marine Corps barracks in Beirut, Reagan promised to track down and punish the terrorists who committed that horrible act. He never followed up on that promise.
7. Reagan Didn't Obey His Own Laws
Reagan illegally supplied weapons to Nicaraguan rebels in violation of a law that he himself had signed.
8. Reagan Supported the Violent Overthrow of a Democratically Elected Government
President Reagan illegally supported the Nicaraguan Contras, whom he called “Freedom Fighters,” despite the facts that they killed civilians and wanted to overthrow the democratically elected government to restore the dictatorship that previously existed in Nicaragua.
9. Reagan Started an Unnecessary War to Take Attention away from His Failure in Beirut
Just days after the bombing that killed 241 Marines in Beirut, Reagan launched an attack on the island of Grenada to remove Cuban soldiers there. This successfully took attention away from the devastating loss of those Marines in Beirut.
10. Reagan Failed to Defend Us from Saddam Hussein
When an Iraqi fighter jet fired a missile into a U.S. Navy ship in 1987, killing 37 men, Reagan did nothing in response to the attack. Iraq is still the only non-allied country to attack a U.S. warship without retaliation.
11. Reagan Helped Create Al Qaeda
The Reagan administration armed and supported the Mujahideen rebels in Afghanistan. Many members of the Mujahideen, like Osama bin Laden, used their experience in Afghanistan to help them form the terrorist organization Al Qaeda.
12. Reagan Supported the Racist Apartheid Government in South Africa
When the white minority in South Africa (just 10% of the population) brutally repressed the black majority, even denying them the right to vote, the U.S. Congress overwhelmingly passed the Anti-Apartheid Act of 1986 to apply pressure to South Africa to end Apartheid. President Reagan opposed any sanctions on South Africa and vetoed that bill. Congress was forced to override his veto.
13. Reagan Supported the Most Brutal Dictators in the World as Long as He Didn't Consider Them “Communists”
He supported Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega. Later, when Noriega became too close with Fidel Castro, we suddenly considered him an enemy and removed him from power.
Reagan supported Saddam Hussein when he committed the most brutal atrocities on Earth, killing thousands of his own people. Years later, when Saddam threatened our oil supply, we used these same atrocities as reasons to go to war with him.
Reagan supported Philippine dictator Ferdinand Marcos even after Marcos killed his political rival and rigged his own reelection.
Reagan supported the brutal regime in El Salvador when it was widely known that they were killing civilians, including Americans. After four American nuns were murdered by Salvadorian soldiers, Reagan’s Secretary of State defended the Salvadorians, suggesting that the nuns might have been shot while trying to run a military roadblock—but this wouldn't explain why they were also raped before they were killed.
14. Reagan’s Administration Had More Documented Corruption Than Any President in U.S. History.
At least 138 Reagan administration officials, including several cabinet members, were investigated for, indicted for, or convicted of crimes. This is the largest number of any U.S. President. Many of them were pardoned by Reagan or President Bush before they could even stand trial.
Reagan Administration officials indicted in the Iran Contra Affair
Secretary of the Interior, James Watt —Indicted on 21 felonies
Attorney General, Edwin Meese —Resigned after investigations of corruption
Secretary of Defense, Caspar Weinberger—Charged with Iran-Contra crimes and pardoned before going to trial
Assistant Secretary of State, Elliot Abrams - Plea bargained for Iran-Contra crimes and pardoned by President Bush
Two National Security Advisors, Robert MacFarlane and John Poindexter—Pleaded guilty to Iran-Contra crimes and were pardoned
Three high ranking CIA officials, Alan Fiers, Clair George and Joseph Fernandez —Convicted and pardoned for Iran-Contra crimes
At least 9 Reagan appointees were convicted of perjury, lying to Congress, obstruction of Congress, or contempt of Congress
15. Reagan Frequently Repeated Bald-Faced Lies Even after They Were Publicly Revealed to Be Untrue
He told stories about having been a U.S. Army photographer assigned to film Nazi death camps. Reagan never visited or filmed any such camps.
He often told a story about a “Chicago Welfare Queen” who had 80 aliases and gotten $150,000 in welfare. She never existed but investigators did find one woman who had two aliases and received $8,000. Reagan continued to tell the false version of the story.
He claimed that trees create more pollution than automobiles, an absurdly untrue statement that he literally pulled out of thin air.
16. Reagan Set Records for Budget Deficits
After criticizing President Carter for having a $50 billion deficit, Reagan’s own deficits exceeded $200 billion. He tripled the national debt in only eight years. Although Republicans blamed Congress for the budget deficits, all eight of the budgets passed by Congress had less spending and smaller deficits than the budgets proposed by Reagan.
17. Reagan's Economic Policies Put Millions of Americans out of Work
When he took office in 1981, unemployment was at 7.5% and dropping. A few months after Reagan’s economic policies took effect, unemployment began to rise again. Millions of people continued to lose their jobs for the next two years until unemployment exceeded 10%. It stayed above 10% for nearly a year, peaking at 10.8%. Three years after he was elected, unemployment was still higher than when he was sworn in.
18. Reagan’s Policies Allowed Hundreds of Thousands of Family Farms to Go out of Business or Declare Bankruptcy
By some accounts, nearly one third of all farms were at risk of being foreclosed during the 1980s. Ronald Reagan vetoed a farm credit bill that would have given farmers some relief. Reagan’s popularity among farmers dropped so low that at one point when discussing the exportation of grain to other countries, Reagan joked that he would like to “keep the grain and export the farmers."
19. Reagan’s Financial Policies Caused the Savings and Loan Industry to Collapse
The financial deregulation and changes to the tax code that President Reagan enacted ultimately caused nearly 750 different financial institutions to fail. All of this cost taxpayers about $150 billion.
20. Reagan Robbed the Social Security Trust Fund to Pay for His Budget Shortfalls
After Reagan cut taxes for the rich, the tax revenue to fund the government was so small that the budget deficit grew to four times what it had been under Jimmy Carter. So Reagan “borrowed” hundreds of billions of dollars from the Social Security trust fund to pay the country’s bills. That money has never been paid back.
21. Reagan Largely Ignored the AIDS Epidemic while Tens of Thousands of People Were Dying of the Disease
Many conservatives in the 1980s believed that AIDS was God’s punishment for being gay. Ronald Reagan did not publicly talk about AIDS until the 6th year of his presidency. In 1986, when AIDS fatalities were doubling every year, Reagan proposed cuts in funding for AIDS research.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
If we're going to start listing things presidents did wrong in my lifetime, this is going to be the longest thread ever.
When it comes to Reagan was a great president, even Kennedy for that matter, it's good to put things in perspective. He was no FDR.
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Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
The free market and capitalism made the US the most powerful economy the world has ever seen. Socialist ideas bankrupt Greece. The more we act like Greece the better the odds we fail like them.
I like free shit, but if you study economics you see free shit quality goes down vs private non govt regulated stuff.
If we are going to give free health care use the European model. Obama Care is horrible. I now pay over $300 per month for an individual policy and I am very healthy. People can't afford this shit.
He US is a huge country with 300,000,000 + people. So what works for Sweden may not be the best solution for the US.
US colleges have been fucking over students for a while, but I don't trust the government to give us just as good of a product for free. Won't work. And we can't just tax our way out of everything.
We need to LOWER taxes on the middle class and corporations and try to get companies back in the US and out of Mexico and China.
This is way too complex for simple answers on a message board, but being an economics guy I believe outside of national defense typically the government makes the issue worse not better. I believe in free markets (with regulation) but not too much regulation.
I think Wall Street is so fucking corrupt and when you can bet on people to fail it creates a cluster fuck of motives and incentives. Shorts, calls, etc can't be good. A lot of people made BILLIONS betting on the housing market to fail. Watch the Big Short. It seems a little unethical to me. Also the market was way up and now it's back down again. It is not a good reflection of the actual market.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
The free market and capitalism made the US the most powerful economy the world has ever seen. Socialist ideas bankrupt Greece. The more we act like Greece the better the odds we fail like them.
I like free shit, but if you study economics you see free shit quality goes down vs private non govt regulated stuff.
If we are going to give free health care use the European model. Obama Care is horrible. I now pay over $300 per month for an individual policy and I am very healthy. People can't afford this shit.
He US is a huge country with 300,000,000 + people. So what works for Sweden may not be the best solution for the US.
US colleges have been fucking over students for a while, but I don't trust the government to give us just as good of a product for free. Won't work. And we can't just tax our way out of everything.
We need to LOWER taxes on the middle class and corporations and try to get companies back in the US and out of Mexico and China.
This is way too complex for simple answers on a message board, but being an economics guy I believe outside of national defense typically the government makes the issue worse not better. I believe in free markets (with regulation) but not too much regulation.
I think Wall Street is so fucking corrupt and when you can bet on people to fail it creates a cluster fuck of motives and incentives. Shorts, calls, etc can't be good. A lot of people made BILLIONS betting on the housing market to fail. Watch the Big Short. It seems a little unethical to me. Also the market was way up and now it's back down again. It is not a good reflection of the actual market.
Defense have literally spent over a trillion dollars on fighter jets they knew can't fly during a storm. That's corrupt.
Government spending and research also created the internet and sattelite technologies, everything that led us to economic booms and changed the free market. The military is now investing in clean energy because oil is not sustainable and was a disadvantage during the wars.
Wall street is as corrupt as the corporations who get the biggest tax breaks and even pay no taxes, who STILL offshore jobs. I don't know how much lower you want their taxes to be. The tax code is loaded with loopholes so they pay very little taxes. How has that ever helped? How about they get those tax cuts when they stasyin the US?
Your healthcare is more because we're the only country in the free world who does not cap the medical and pharmecutical industries, or class action lawsuits. Until that is fixed nothing will help.
And stop about socialism, its a scare tactic, it will never come to pass. Even majority of democrats are anti socialism.
