TOMMY STINSON: Classic GN'R Reunion 'Will BeHealing Thing' For Them"

johndivney

Tommy wants back in..

Smoking Guns

Tommy is a cool cat. He seemed to like the booze too. Haha. Everything has worked out for the best.

monkeychow

misterID wrote:

To be honest, at that point, Axl was looking for a reason to bring Slash back, IMO. I don't think DJ ever fit GNR tbh, or the direction Axl had in visioned with Finck and Buckethead.

I was thinking the other day about how there was really a slow transition back to "traditional GNR".

Think back to how it changed:

2002 - Axl has braids, wears pretty much only hockey gear in the manner of rap guys, band reforms Riad in the set - one of Axl's more industrial type numbers, Buckethead is Buckhead, and Robin has a very NIN style appearance.

2006: Axl still has braids, but now his clothes are very suitable for a mature yet classic rock performer, Robin has grown hair and a beard and now looks like a rock guitarist , Bucket is replaced by bumble - who although still an advent guard guitarist joins which a much more 'rocker' style (starting with a grungy beanie sort of look and evolving into quite a 'metal' type beard/hair). Now the band does the more rock oriented CD songs live such as IRS and Twat. Frank then joins the band - he plays the stuff more like Alder used to. The crew works on mods to the CD album - most of which seem to make it more rockier - such as bumble's "sleazy" bits on the title track and Franks drumming. Some of bucket's more industrial stuff is replaced - think Shackler and Riad.

2009: DJ Ashba joins the band. DJ's entire look both visually and musically screams "80s Rocker" not Industrial-Evoluton. I think he would have been more at home replacing Mick Mars than Slash (figures given he wrote some of Saints of LA and plays in Sixx: AM) and while he's largely disliked by classic fans - he did nothing if not bring the role of the lead guitarist closer to the Slash paradigm than since Slash left. I think DJ was actually a fan of slash and trying to be respectful - but it got to the point where it bordered on parody or cringeful imitation. Don't mean to bash DJ - seems to be a cool guy and he sure makes something of himself in all his creative activities out there - so respect for that - I'm just saying in terms of my "return to the old days" theory - his clothing, musical style and stage presence all (perhaps rightly) mirrored classic Guns not Axl's 1997-2002 vision of a guns that was slowly teaching its fanbase to accept industrial and non-rock music. Izzy cameos with the band - Izzy the guy who publicly dissed Axl the most when he quit - and who was the first to quit. Meanwhile Axl changes his look to an updated version of his UYI look - classic rock - no braids - nothing rap like at all.

2012: Guns invades las vegas. Although CD tracks still exist in the set - the branding of the show is more blatant in being hybrid CD/AFD branding. Stage show also includes 80s rock type stuff like strippers etc. Izzy and Duff cameo.

2015/6: Slash and Duff rejoin the fold.

So yeah...don't mean to be a conspiracy theorist - but IMO - we've been slowly transitioning back to classic GNR ever since the 2002 tour collapsed to some extent, but very strongly since CD was released IMO.

Basically, any time there has been a change, the change is closer to old guns than new guns.

Me_Wise_Magic

You're right on the money.

misterID

monkeychow wrote:

misterID wrote:
To be honest, at that point, Axl was looking for a reason to bring Slash back, IMO. I don't think DJ ever fit GNR tbh, or the direction Axl had in visioned with Finck and Buckethead.
I was thinking the other day about how there was really a slow transition back to "traditional GNR".
Think back to how it changed:
2002 - Axl has braids, wears pretty much only hockey gear in the manner of rap guys, band reforms Riad in the set - one of Axl's more industrial type numbers, Buckethead is Buckhead, and Robin has a very NIN style appearance.
2006: Axl still has braids, but now his clothes are very suitable for a mature yet classic rock performer, Robin has grown hair and a beard and now looks like a rock guitarist , Bucket is replaced by bumble - who although still an advent guard guitarist joins which a much more 'rocker' style (starting with a grungy beanie sort of look and evolving into quite a 'metal' type beard/hair). Now the band does the more rock oriented CD songs live such as IRS and Twat. Frank then joins the band - he plays the stuff more like Alder used to. The crew works on mods to the CD album - most of which seem to make it more rockier - such as bumble's "sleazy" bits on the title track and Franks drumming. Some of bucket's more industrial stuff is replaced - think Shackler and Riad.
2009: DJ Ashba joins the band. DJ's entire look both visually and musically screams "80s Rocker" not Industrial-Evoluton. I think he would have been more at home replacing Mick Mars than Slash (figures given he wrote some of Saints of LA and plays in Sixx: AM) and while he's largely disliked by classic fans - he did nothing if not bring the role of the lead guitarist closer to the Slash paradigm than since Slash left. I think DJ was actually a fan of slash and trying to be respectful - but it got to the point where it bordered on parody or cringeful imitation. Don't mean to bash DJ - seems to be a cool guy and he sure makes something of himself in all his creative activities out there - so respect for that - I'm just saying in terms of my "return to the old days" theory - his clothing, musical style and stage presence all (perhaps rightly) mirrored classic Guns not Axl's 1997-2002 vision of a guns that was slowly teaching its fanbase to accept industrial and non-rock music. Izzy cameos with the band - Izzy the guy who publicly dissed Axl the most when he quit - and who was the first to quit. Meanwhile Axl changes his look to an updated version of his UYI look - classic rock - no braids - nothing rap like at all.
2012: Guns invades las vegas. Although CD tracks still exist in the set - the branding of the show is more blatant in being hybrid CD/AFD branding. Stage show also includes 80s rock type stuff like strippers etc. Izzy and Duff cameo.
2015/6: Slash and Duff rejoin the fold.

So yeah...don't mean to be a conspiracy theorist - but IMO - we've been slowly transitioning back to classic GNR ever since the 2002 tour collapsed to some extent, but very strongly since CD was released IMO.
Basically, any time there has been a change, the change is closer to old guns than new guns.

No, you're right. It's about that time Axl started to coast through his shows too. I don't think it's a coincidence. Becoming another Six AM is not what he envisioned for himself or GNR.

misterID

And yeah, 2011 was the turning point where it looks like Axl basically lost interest or heart with the DJ/Ron lineup.

James

Excellent post Monkey.

Your "return to the old days" theory isn't a theory.....its a fact. He had that really unique yet quirky CD lineup and when the project went to shit for various reasons and the cherry on top being Bucket's departure, in 2006 he started to morph new GNR into a nostalgia act that could much more easily cater to casual audiences. It started at the 06 return at Hammerstein. Ron in place of Bucket and all of a sudden Finck looks like a rocker. Then Brain exits stage left. Bring on 2009 and there was no turning back....nostalgia act til the cows come home. I actually wish he would have announced that he had scrapped the project entirely when the Ashba era was underway. It wouldn't have hurt his casual audience whatsoever as they didn't even know of its existence and hardcores didn't need to be strung along like that. Its why in 2009 when they came back I knew we weren't getting any new material with that lineup. It was nothing more than a touring lineup assembled and yeah I know they strummed a few guitars and emailed the files to one another. It was as far away from the Chinese project as you could get without an actual reunion..........and here we are.

I know quite a few people liked that lineup and there's certainly nothing wrong with that but IMO the 2009-15 era was a complete waste, at least creatively speaking. Not ONE song released or recorded in six years and he had an album's worth of material recorded eons ago to cherry pick a track from. The Ashba era lasted the length of the classic era. Its why I don't understand the supposed resistance to a reunion in that time frame. It was crystal clear that GNR was no longer a creative entity. I also never understood FAN resistance to it in this time frame either. Its like some people were expecting Axl to throw a hail mary at the last second when he wasn't even in the game.

Although CD tracks still exist in the set - the branding of the show is more blatant in being hybrid CD/AFD branding.

I realized many years down the road that the entire CD era was a bait and switch. Might not have been completely intentional but I believe some aspects of it were. Talks of Chinese and you wind up being hit over the head with AFD. Year after year. He was definitely more serious about CD in the early 00s but it happened then as well. He attempted to justify this by saying fans weren't ready to move on, its too advanced, etc. No.....he wasn't ready for it, at least not willing to deal with any mass scrutiny, judgment,etc..although in his defense, the album deserved to come out in 2001 when he initially wanted it out. I'd love to see how it would've played out without the need to continually focus on the 87-91 era.

Us fans are in an interesting situation on the outside looking in. We just endured a 7 years and counting "wait" with no new material and we're hoping Slash and Duff of all people can swoop in and save at least some fragments of the followup to Chinese Democracy from the purgatory its been in for 15 years instead of just getting aboard for nothing but a massive wave of nostalgia.....which fans just endured for 7 years without them.

Did you ever think Slash and Duff would be needed to finish the album?

And yeah, 2011 was the turning point where it looks like Axl basically lost interest or heart with the DJ/Ron lineup.

I know we all have different opinions on this specific issue but I will always think he lost interest in the actual CD project right before or IMMEDIATELY after the Ashba era began. I could 'feel' it back then and even said in 09 we'd get nothing while Ashba was in the band because I saw it for what it was.....a touring lineup. Yeah I know that first leg post CD release had some CD heavy sets but he was just pushing an album that had tanked on the charts by that point.......and might have even been testing out a CD heavy set wondering how it would've went over had he pulled the trigger on that years ago in the Bucket era.

dave-gnfnr

Smoking Guns wrote:

So basically Axl's band abandoned him for various reasons so he is forced to bring the boys back. Slash and Duff to save the day!

That is why Brian, Buckethed, and Robin all quit too. Because Axl was fucking around too much and never had a clear plan. It because his management is shit. team Brazil has no clue what they are doing.

So when there was no new album or tour in site, it was time for Tommy, BBF and DJ to quit too because they had other things they could be doing was well.

Axl was basically playing greatest hits and a bunch of covers, he was barely playing any CD songs anymore, so why not just play those songs with the band that actually wrote them in Slash and Duff (and hopefully izzy for a few shows).

IF you think about it, if Axl really did his whole three album plan thing they should have all been out by now but we only got one.

then axl could have either written a 4th album or done this reunion thing. But instead Axl wasted tons of talent, especially with BH, Brain and Robin and had stuck with just a revolving door band playing covers. and now he is back to Axl Slash and Duff which is fine if he was only going to be playing GH set list anyways

IMO Axl loved bucketed and he was even trying to get him back up until the hammerstein shows but he had to settle for bumble foot.

I think Once Axl lost BH he stopped caring and just coasted because he knew that BBF was not the answer then he lost Robin and he really stopped caring and probably just wanted to get Duff and Slash back by that point.

jimmythegent

Interesting read...

Kind of does come across like this reunion is quite a pragmatic move by Axl. Whatever the reasons, I hope having a semblance of the original band back will re-energise him creatively - focused, charismatic and edgy performances hopefully with new music created also. A big 'comeback' single with a simple cool clip could be a huge boost for this comeback I reckon. The youtube age of of promoting music is powerful and needs to be taken advantage of. Watching that 'Baby Rann' clip by Izzy - man they could have worked that up as a perfect Guns song. Great to see he is still able to pen songs like that.

As for Slash, I haven't really watched or kept up with his solo work not being a fan of Myles. I enjoyed the solo album where he guest vocalists however. I made a point of watching Anastasia live in Sydney last night and wow I was blown away by how much of a more complete guitar he has become. He really has reached a new level technically. He's always been great as we know, but technically the chops he have now are far more rounded. Just needs harnessing in the right direction...

James

Yeah....the cracks in that 2000-04 lineup must have been a killer. Losing Freese wasn't a problem as it led to a rock solid, stable lineup to truly "finish" the album. Bucket entering the equation took it to levels it never would've went without him. Most fans didn't even bat an eye when Huge left though as the so called "secret weapon" had arrived(who coined that term for him?).

That album rejection must have crushed all involved. The 02 tour never should've happened in hindsight and even Axl admitted this. The entire focus should've been on getting the album out and find proper management. Azoff was needed at the time. If anyone could've forced the label's hand it was him.

I'd like to know what exactly was Bucket's breaking point. I'd also like to know how they all felt about the 2003 IRS leak on the Trunk show that got tons of attention even with only a handful hearing it and how they did NOTHING in response to it but demand it be pulled. That song should've been blaring on radio stations worldwide during that initial buzz surrounding the track.

You're right though about "coasting" although not sure it was to that extent but even Tommy admitted it was never the same after Bucket left and he was initially happy he had left. Be careful what you wish for Tommy...

It because his management is shit. team Brazil has no clue what they are doing.

TB cant be blamed for everything. They weren't even running the show during those crucial years. In hindsight I think Merck was much worse. A forum junkie who sat around all day answering emails from Madison and chineseblues and anytime someone mentions a CD song he throws out the old "We've got 20 songs better than that on the B list" chestnut that got old really quick.

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