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Re: Nightrain Official Site
Why does Duff get all this credit? What makes him so special from a business standpoint, and a money standpoint? Let's be honest... this is ALL ABOUT -- SLASH being back.
I'd say songwriting skills as much as it is about songwriting credits. Duff has written or helped write numerous songs on AFD and the UYI's (RQ, It's so Easy, So Fine, PC, Civil War, GiTR, ...) and a good deal of those are either hits, or stand-out deep cuts (if only musically in some cases). Dizzy has three co-writing credits on CD (IRS, TWAT and SoD), but I think it's fair to say that TWAT and SOD are about as Axl as you can get so I'm inclined to say he probably just wrote his parts and that mr. Rose was being kind by including him in the credits.
To me it's another indication that the whole CD era might end up being downplayed a bit in this reunion, but that's obviously just speculation on my part.
Re: Nightrain Official Site
That is Axlin's and my point. It is only about them. Before it was about everyone. No more.
Really, I think what your point is is that you're trying to say GNR only has three members... And I think it stems from not getting the AFD 5 reunion... Like a form of denial... I don't think it's going to work that way. Those guys are going to be in the official lineup.
Re: Nightrain Official Site
Axlin16 wrote:Why does Duff get all this credit? What makes him so special from a business standpoint, and a money standpoint? Let's be honest... this is ALL ABOUT -- SLASH being back.
I'd say songwriting skills as much as it is about songwriting credits. Duff has written or helped write numerous songs on AFD and the UYI's (RQ, It's so Easy, So Fine, PC, Civil War, GiTR, ...) and a good deal of those are either hits, or stand-out deep cuts (if only musically in some cases). Dizzy has three co-writing credits on CD (IRS, TWAT and SoD), but I think it's fair to say that TWAT and SOD are about as Axl as you can get so I'm inclined to say he probably just wrote his parts and that mr. Rose was being kind by including him in the credits.
To me it's another indication that the whole CD era might end up being downplayed a bit in this reunion, but that's obviously just speculation on my part.
Why is there a difference between Duff and Dizzy's contributions? How many hits have Duff written without Axl? How many have Slash?
If we look at song writing the common denominator appears to be Axl, with Slash playing. Everybody else is a mere contributor. If Slash had been on CD it would surely have generated some big hits, and then you are suddenly looking at the same role for Dizzy and Tobias as you do Duff in the old band.
- A Private Eye
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Re: Nightrain Official Site
It's been Axl, Slash and Duff for years, since the day Izzy walked away they have been the key 3. Even when they were out the legal wrangling and sueing etc was always between the 3 of them. They were the 3 core decision makers I think Axl has said that on multiple occasions. Sure from a media stand point and symbolically Slash is the big deal and at this stage I don't think you get Slash without Duff.
Dizzy certainly has served his time but to say he brings much as Duff is a hell of a stretch. AFD will always be GNR's biggest cash cow and he plays not a note on it. On UYI (the next biggest cash cow) he plays what Axl wrote. As has already been pointed out he has 3 writing credits on CD. Not bagging the guy but besides longevity there's nothing suggesting he should be part of the 'power 3'.
It would be interesting to know the make up of the new contracts and how it breaks down. Whether Slash and Duff are paid employees ala Tommy/Fortus or they actually own a slice of the pie again.
I can't see Axl relinquishing ownership of the name but then again I can't see Slash/Duff being comfortable after all this time being nothing more than hired musicians.
Re: Nightrain Official Site
Just a quick pug. If Axl makes it past Izzy in the semi-final of the elimination series tournament going up later on, then the final this weekend will be Axl vs. Slash in the final.
Try to bring some of these points there 
.
As for the official site, Smoking did you buy the deluxe membership? Can you tell me what it includes over the regular membership apart from the T shirt?
Re: Nightrain Official Site
Why is there a difference between Duff and Dizzy's contributions? How many hits have Duff written without Axl? How many have Slash?
If we're talking about hits (and not personal opinion about the songs) post UYI's, then Duff objectively has a much better record than Dizzy given his work on Contraband and to a lesser extent Libertad and IFOCS (Beggars, co-written by Duff, charted pretty damn well).
I also think you're underestimating how much of a public spokesperson Duff was for the band back in the day. Whenever Slash wasn't available, Duff would be the guy everyone went to. You don't become a beer on the Simpsons without a public image.
If we look at song writing the common denominator appears to be Axl, with Slash playing. Everybody else is a mere contributor. If Slash had been on CD it would surely have generated some big hits, and then you are suddenly looking at the same role for Dizzy and Tobias as you do Duff in the old band.
Again, here I disagree with you, but this is more about personal taste than anything. Everyone will likely agree that neither Slash, Duff nor Axl have produced anything that comes close to what they had written together in the past (same goes for Izzy). The more of those core 4 people were included in a solo project, the higher the songwriting quality. So Axl somehow being the linchpin to GnR's songwriting prowess is bullcrap, IMHO. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: to me the best post-GNR songs are on Contraband and IFOCS. Slash's later solo albums all fall short of those two, as does Chinese.
Re: Nightrain Official Site
It's been Axl, Slash and Duff for years, since the day Izzy walked away they have been the key 3. Even when they were out the legal wrangling and sueing etc was always between the 3 of them. They were the 3 core decision makers I think Axl has said that on multiple occasions. Sure from a media stand point and symbolically Slash is the big deal and at this stage I don't think you get Slash without Duff.
Dizzy certainly has served his time but to say he brings much as Duff is a hell of a stretch. AFD will always be GNR's biggest cash cow and he plays not a note on it. On UYI (the next biggest cash cow) he plays what Axl wrote. As has already been pointed out he has 3 writing credits on CD. Not bagging the guy but besides longevity there's nothing suggesting he should be part of the 'power 3'.
It would be interesting to know the make up of the new contracts and how it breaks down. Whether Slash and Duff are paid employees ala Tommy/Fortus or they actually own a slice of the pie again.
I can't see Axl relinquishing ownership of the name but then again I can't see Slash/Duff being comfortable after all this time being nothing more than hired musicians.
26 fuckin' years in a band. Writing music on the last album, and stuff your boss refuses to release that sits in his basement.
If I was Dizzy Reed, i'd tell them to suck my fuckin' dick. Thanks for nothing cocksuckers.
Axl's gotta be cuttin' Dizwald a deal on the backside. Gotta be, or otherwise my head's gonna explode why Dizzy is fucking there, unless it really is like Mole said and that the stuff Dizzy wrote, Axl pretty much wrote, and threw Dizzy a bone on the CD credits. I mean how does he feel to look at Slash & Duff, to know they (in reality) were only there for about eight years, realistically, tack on 3 more years of inactivity... and you've been there for 26. They come back, and your a session player IN THEIR BAND, that you've been in for the last 26.
This shit's fucked up. If Dizzy is just a session player, then all those times slapping Matt, Gilby & Dizzy on merch during the UYI days was worthless. It meant nothing, and never did. They were never in the band. Ever. GN'R apparently was just Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff & Steven. Steven was mutually fired by the board of trustees in 1990, Izzy left the partnership in 1991, which leaves Axl, Slash & Duff. Axl left the partnership in 1995, took the name with him, and Slash & Duff refused to sign his new deal in 1996. Then Duff signed, and left the following year in 1997.
Fast forward to 2016.... looks like they re-signed the deal that was on the table since Dec. 1995. Again... picking up where they left off it looks like. Fresh start. Dallas Dream Season realized.
Unreal
- A Private Eye
- Rep: 77
Re: Nightrain Official Site
26 fuckin' years in a band. Writing music on the last album, and stuff your boss refuses to release that sits in his basement.
If I was Dizzy Reed, i'd tell them to suck my fuckin' dick. Thanks for nothing cocksuckers.
Axl's gotta be cuttin' Dizwald a deal on the backside. Gotta be, or otherwise my head's gonna explode why Dizzy is fucking there, unless it really is like Mole said and that the stuff Dizzy wrote, Axl pretty much wrote, and threw Dizzy a bone on the CD credits. I mean how does he feel to look at Slash & Duff, to know they (in reality) were only there for about eight years, realistically, tack on 3 more years of inactivity... and you've been there for 26. They come back, and your a session player IN THEIR BAND, that you've been in for the last 26.
This shit's fucked up. If Dizzy is just a session player, then all those times slapping Matt, Gilby & Dizzy on merch during the UYI days was worthless. It meant nothing, and never did. They were never in the band. Ever. GN'R apparently was just Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff & Steven. Steven was mutually fired by the board of trustees in 1990, Izzy left the partnership in 1991, which leaves Axl, Slash & Duff. Axl left the partnership in 1995, took the name with him, and Slash & Duff refused to sign his new deal in 1996. Then Duff signed, and left the following year in 1997.
Fast forward to 2016.... looks like they re-signed the deal that was on the table since Dec. 1995. Again... picking up where they left off it looks like. Fresh start. Dallas Dream Season realized.
Unreal
Or you could say 3 writing credits in 26 years. Not his fault of course but in those terms not integral either.
That's not to say he's not being well rewarded for the last 26 years financially, who knows. Maybe he's happy with that. Probably far better off than if he'd spent the last 26 years playing bars with Hookers and Blow.
Re: Nightrain Official Site
True, and Dizzy could also be getting a side deal too.
Remember, Izzy apparently told 'em thanks but no thanks too.
Something tells me they are both paid differently, because more than likely, even with Dizzy being full-time, neither Izzy or Dizzy want ANYTHING to do with the business-side of GN'R.
Whereas Axl, Slash & Duff not only DO want to know what's up with the business-side of GN'R, they are basically an all-star team. Axl's studied for years on it, Slash has mastered his brand, and Duff has a fucking Masters degree in Finance.
Maybe that's why those three are now the re-branding of Guns, and to let the free spirits like Izzy, Steven & Dizzy... be exactly what they are... the free spirits. Whatever studio material Izzy, Dizzy & Steven want to contribute to Guns N' Roses will be more than welcomed, and that is how they'll be paid -- writing credits. Izzy & Dizzy might see that as lucrative, Steven obviously ain't gonna be contributing much, but might be around in some form.
Re: Nightrain Official Site
polluxlm wrote:Why is there a difference between Duff and Dizzy's contributions? How many hits have Duff written without Axl? How many have Slash?
If we're talking about hits (and not personal opinion about the songs) post UYI's, then Duff objectively has a much better record than Dizzy given his work on Contraband and to a lesser extent Libertad and IFOCS (Beggars, co-written by Duff, charted pretty damn well).
I also think you're underestimating how much of a public spokesperson Duff was for the band back in the day. Whenever Slash wasn't available, Duff would be the guy everyone went to. You don't become a beer on the Simpsons without a public image.
polluxlm wrote:If we look at song writing the common denominator appears to be Axl, with Slash playing. Everybody else is a mere contributor. If Slash had been on CD it would surely have generated some big hits, and then you are suddenly looking at the same role for Dizzy and Tobias as you do Duff in the old band.
Again, here I disagree with you, but this is more about personal taste than anything. Everyone will likely agree that neither Slash, Duff nor Axl have produced anything that comes close to what they had written together in the past (same goes for Izzy). The more of those core 4 people were included in a solo project, the higher the songwriting quality. So Axl somehow being the linchpin to GnR's songwriting prowess is bullcrap, IMHO. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: to me the best post-GNR songs are on Contraband and IFOCS. Slash's later solo albums all fall short of those two, as does Chinese.
CD (single) performed better on the Hot 100 than anything from VR, so not sure if Duff's post UYI career is that much better than Dizzy's. CD (album) is a decent effort to be part of.
I doubt a majority on these boards would agree VR wrote better tunes than GN'R these last 20 years. CD may not have been a huge hit commercially but I get the impression most fans think it was far closer to GN'R quality than anything Slash & Co ever did on their own. And whichever way you slize it, if we take GN'Rs biggest hits the only common denominator is Axl as a songwriter. I also include Slash on guitar since I believe that is important. Did Duff make a big difference either way there? I don't think so. I think NR and SCOM could be released with any other bass player and be as big hits as they were. Remove Axl and Slash and the equation changes.
His image marketability is also overrated. Bigger than Dizzy's for sure, but not significant like Axl and Slash. In the end he is a bit player like Dizzy, albeit of course more prominent than him. That doesn't make him integral.
