Date this DJ-era show, please.

jimmythegent

Good lord what a disgrace he was. Tarnished the nu- Guns era no doubt. Finck used to have his moments but at least he had a certain style and aura - this clown is a hack and can't play. Bumble and Richard must have been cringing more than most with that butchering

apex-twin

To me, it says something about the atmosphere in that band.

Particularly the interaction between DJ and Tommy. DJ stops him, physically. Tommy laughs out loud. He's got that look, 'You really thought I was going to punch you, right?' So Tommy.

Guns is an employer and everybody plays nice with the boss. The boss liked DJ, so DJ was in the band. Everybody smiled. But there's a good chance of animosity behind the scenes. Remember the cold shoulders Ron got on his way in.

There's a case to be made that DJ was the new Paul Huge, without writing an album, tho.

polluxlm

There's no comparison for DJ in GN'R. The person he has the most in common with I would say is Ron. Neither really ever fit in, their creative powers were questionable and there are no BH on Nightrain moments for the fans to cherish. They just played the old hits decently. I'm tempted to label them hacks.

Huge may have been an odd personality, though I suspect much of the animosity were for vicarious reasons. He was a core writer and he abandoned ship when he realized fame wasn't his thing. Not exactly fitting the image of arrogant friend of the boss, butting in to usurp a guitar spot in an established band.

DJ on the other hand loves fame, loves the life. And what he's lacking in talent he makes up for in image building. Always the good boy, dressing the part, full of positive energy. This is likely what attracted Axl to him in the first place, until he realized there wasn't much beneath the act. There has been no hint at bitterness over his or Ron's departure. When BH and Robin left you knew they were devastated, and the fan base was too.

apex-twin

Fair enough,

Anyone can point the fundamental flaw in this picture. If Slash is what you're going for, go all the way. Get Slash.

It's hard to say what instigated the image DJ adopted specifically for Guns with the top hat, on-stage smoking and other trinkets. I personally noticed the smoking. This was, after all, the same Axl Rose, who forbade smoking in the studio in the late 90's. But he too, was playing it out by wearing a bandanna again, and Farm Aid-ish attire. This was, again, the singer who had come out of hiding multiple times in a decade, foregoing what seems like a Doctor Who routine on himself. Those jerseys were a long way from the hulkish Sean Paul of '06-'07.

I would contribute at least a part of this throwback nature of the Ashba -era to Team Brazil. I doubt Axl single-handedly arrived to the conclusion that he should start catering the nostalgia crowds with the band image. I would guess he was more like led on to a hard rock approach. DJ was available for that. Azoff may have weighted in on Axl to respond to public expectations in the matter.

Having said that, they had their day in the sun. In 2010, Axl was picking up on his previous form and the band rode a wave of enthusiasm. Shackler is one of the most derided CD songs, but this lineup certainly puts the effort into it. Most disarming is Axl, he's really belting it out. At the end of the video, notice his thousand-yard stare into the audience. It's tempting to think he's caught off-guard at that moment of truth - did they like it, or what?

polluxlm

Yes, very interesting observations. The change started before DJ though. Already in 2006 the band had largely shed its alternative image. Axl came back without the jerseys, a better haircut, with jeans and leather. Finck replaced his s&m look with rocky long hair, adapted more classical poses on stage. Though retaining his scrappy image by wearing stuff like a trash bag as an overall.

It was definitely a reaction to the mixed response the 01/02 band got. From songs like OMG and Silkworms to players BH and Finck who looked more like avant garde artists than lead guitarists in guns n' f' n' roses. Was it conscious, was it not? Not sure. Hired gun or lead singer, there must always be pressure to please the fans. If you feel they aren't quite responding there are bound to be changes, especially when the lack of response is because of an ill change to begin with.

misterID

Axl coasted through 02, from his appearance to the music, you could tell he was there because he had to, not because he wanted to. It was the exact opposite in 06. It was like he was showing everyone who the cock of the walk was in Rock, he knew he was a badass and it shown through every show. The moment I knew he was going to start mailing it in again was that Rio show and the infamous yellow coat. Everything was off and he repeated that bad vibe until the Vegas residency, save a few shows. You can tell when his heart isn't in it. I will always believe it was due to the loss of Finck and Bucket. Watch that show when Finck came back to do Better, and how he holds his Robin's shoulder. You can see it.

apex-twin

Axl was forced to tour in '02 and '11.

The '02 US tour was promoted by ClearChannel and contracts had been signed with Sanctuary and others in the preceding year. It was Doug Goldstein's idea to provide Axl with the necessary muscle to back up his comeback tour. They were set to promote an album, only Axl failed to deliver. What ensued was them having a contractual obligation to fill on half-full arenas with a disgruntled lead singer. Axl wanted to stay home. He was clearly insecure and had his own reservations.

The '11 US tour was motived by a lawsuit settlement; the need to pull the money together to pay Azoff. Axl was disappointed with the way the tour was put together. He wanted to be home, maybe tinkering on CD2 in his leisurely pace. He had done whatever he'd set out to do and was now forced to go back on the road. The boozing got out of hand far worse than in the previous year. It was perhaps a bit similar to the UYI tour, when Axl had times when he definitely should've been home and getting counselling, instead of submerging in rock n' roll excess on the far side of the world.

In '10, Axl had kept it together for all intents and purposes for the initial six months before cracks began to show. Remember the 'hacked' Axl tweet about the tour having been cancelled, the Reading/Leeds debacle, and the Dublin show, which led to Tommy writing One Man Mutiny. It was an attack against phonies who thought they were on easy street - it's plausible to imagine Tommy pointing the finger on DJ, or Ron. Tommy's line was clear - he's in Axl's band, so he fights for his own rights.

A few months later, Tommy did just that. "being pushed to the end of ones rope for so long will make you a good climber,or road kill. i'm gonna find a new tree." This was just before the Abu Dhabi show. Axl broached the subject in the Trunk interview, saying something along the lines that the band were really screwed in UAE. The tension that had been visible since August came to a head. Likely, in typical Guns fashion, everybody skadoodled and figured they'd iron things out the following year.

Next thing we know, Axl's out of shape, Ron's on painkillers and DJ's playing gets worse.

Mama's Good Boy

I am not really a DJ Ashba fan. He fits better playing with Nikki Sixx. Definitely didn't care for him in Guns. He comes across as more about image and about prompting his stuff than anything else. I guess he played the old material well enough but what a generic guy.

Robin Finck, I know his presence in the band was controversial, but at least he had his own unique vibe, and put his own spin on the material. Plus he is all over the CD stuff. GnR was a much better band with Robin.. after he left, my interest slipped.

James

From 01-02, to 06-07, to 09-14 you can see the band evolving from an original and unique entity into the nostalgia act it became. Its why my interest went to less than zero the moment Ashba walked through the door. He no longer had any interest in pretending they were going to do something other than tour the hits.

Is there such a thing as highlights of Ashba's best moments in the band? Anyone have any examples?

Watching that Shackler's video just makes me wish the 2001-02 lineup had performed it. Backing tapes? Really? Why bother even performing it? If so, why not perform Riad? Ashba admitted he couldn't play it so just let some of those who can play it play along to the tapes and if Axl has difficulty singing it, let him sing along to the tape. Funny in that vid how Ashba is clapping along to the crowd when he should actually be doing, hmm I don't know......maybe playing his guitar?

How far along was Shacklers in the Bucket time frame? We know he wrote the song but in the Axl chats he says the song was inspired by the VT massacre which puts it in 2007. Did he add some lyrics in 2007 or did he mistake it for Columbine accidentally in the chats?

misterID wrote:

Watch that show when Finck came back to do Better, and how he holds his Robin's shoulder. You can see it.

I recently watched that clip and immediately wished he had never left. I was always on the fence with Finck. I did not like how he interpreted the classic songs but liked him on the CD material(TIL solo the exception).

He would have been perfect for GNR had the saga turned out how it was supposed to in the early-mid 00s. Same with Bucket. I bet those guys got excited in 2003 when the Trunk broadcast of IRS was major news. Then when they heard about the cease and desist realized it was back in limbo again.

Mama's Good Boy wrote:

GnR was a much better band with Robin.. after he left, my interest slipped.

I had no problem with him going back to NIN. Couldn't blame the guy for getting sick of waiting. That 01-02 lineup deserved to have their material released on their watch. Also take into account NIN released The Slip right after he joined. He accomplished more in one month than he did in 10 years with GNR. I was one of the fans who immediately said he was never coming back to GNR after The Slip was released. There was no reason to(there still isn't).

I could have handled his departure much better had someone other than Ashba been placed in that role. Axl couldn't have found a worse replacement if he tried. The Ashba choice only makes sense when in the context of taking it the nostalgia route. He scores a 10 on the wannabe Slash image scale but scores a zero talent wise and the possibility of bringing something interesting to the table. His only job requirement was standing there holding his guitar pretending to be Slash. Mission accomplished.

I have no doubt that members like Tommy couldn't stand the guy for many reasons. Tommy always wanted to do something with GNR, before and after CD's release. Seeing it going in that direction had to make him want to vomit and is probably one of the reasons his formerly harsh stance on Bucket lessened.

Proof is in the pudding and there's several spoonfuls....

edit: Band interview from 2010. Nothing wrong with this small interview but its a nostalgia act. Plain and simple. Fans expecting new material from this particular lineup cant blame these guys. If this was Soundgarden(or insert different band), they would have mentioned working on new material in this clip. They just talk about putting on a great show here. Like I said, nothing wrong with that but fans should have adjusted their expectations.

2nd edit: An interview with Ron and DJ at the same place. Just a laid back interview with some humor but notice how they gloss over the question about CD II. Ron gives good interviews but my god I cant stand Ashba.

A Private Eye

I may be the only one but I actually didn't mind the guy.

Did a job and seemed to enjoy being there. Was he a mind blowing guitarist, no, but neither was Finck.

If we're witch hunting people who fuck up Patience btw I'd start with the singer.

I also always liked this

Re: Date this DJ-era show, please.

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Re: Date this DJ-era show, please.

Re: Date this DJ-era show, please.

Re: Date this DJ-era show, please.

Re: Date this DJ-era show, please.

Re: Date this DJ-era show, please.

Re: Date this DJ-era show, please.

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