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Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...
supa, you're right he wasn't "dressed for success". I'm one of those people that doesn't really care what any of them are wearing but in a general sense it certainly matters. Main reason a lot prefer the 2006 period is the "presentation". He looked like he was back to kick ass and chew gum.
It's a matter of work clothes. Rock is a superficial genre of music in many ways, and if people are insecure enough to idolize a manic-depressive underachiever as a rock star, they need him to look the part. Ax got the looks down in the AFD era, but during the UYI tour, he certainly started going awkward with bicycle shorts and fur coats - at the same time. Fans lapped it up for the extravaganza, he could get away with it and he mostly did.
Axl himself was aware of the image way back in 1989.
When I put on my clothes or do a photo session, I want to look the best I can. If you're going on a date, you want to look good for that person or for yourself. I've got enough money now to buy a suit I like and wear it the way I want... We're definitely image-conscious.
I think if Izzy came wearing a clown suit to a photo session, we'd want to know how he could validate his presence in a clown suit. [Laughs] But if he could back it up and convince us there was a reason, then it would be cool. Otherwise, it wouldn't be...
If I feel real dominant and decadent, I'm gonna be wearing my jackboots and stuff like that. I try to express myself through my clothes. It's another form of the art I'm not afraid of what people think about different ways I look. I'm gonna do what I want to.
Thus, it can be argued that Axl's attire represents his way of communicating his inner state during performances. Some artists may put up the stage clothes like a camouflage or a second skin. He's different in the sense that even if he has a continuing trend in sport jerseys or coats and tees (02 vs 06), it varies from show to show. I'll argue that even in 2002, Axl evidenced a degree of image-consciousness by having a variety of local jerseys per each show.
What can then be deduced by such fashion? There's the insecurity; putting up with layers of clothing to hide one's bodily shape. The crowd-pleasing, associating with their local sports heroes. The identity crisis, he certainly came across wondering who he was in that day and age, and how should he express that. It's as if he looked at the entertainment world around himself and had a serious issue with placing himself on the map anymore. "Just be yourself" is a tough advice to give him.
I can only assume that by the time the album was eventually released, Axl just didn't give a fuck anymore. He seems these days like an artist just going through the motions enjoying his life and touring once in a while, without caring about the music.
I think he stopped really caring about CD long before that. He obviously added Fortus at some point 02-05 and Ron/Frank in 06-07 but after 01-02 the few comments he made were not very positive.
The biggest singular artistic push came in at about '98-'00. That was the Sean Beavan era. Axl was deadset in making the rock album and the EDM album. He took his time to allow the band to feel their way into it in the dark. Then, he recorded vocals and every time he did that, a GNR track was born. Granted, he was apparently went through a hideously dark period in life to reach the recording booth, and releasing the album(s) there and then would've been a major relief on a human level.
Overcoming the endless and seemingly insane amount of obstacles faced by all involved, notwithstanding the emotional challenges endured by everyone -- the fans, the band, our road crew and business team -- has at many times seemed like a bad dream in which one wakes up only to find that they are still in the nightmare.
That's probably a fairly apt description. People who waited on the album, I mean, waited, were clinging to it like to an idol to fill a void in their existence in a religious fervor. Fair enough, but they would've been absolutely abhorred had Axl opened up on "the true, ongoing, behind-the-scenes triumphs and casualties" - such as Buckethead watching porn in his dog-shit-ridden chicken coop.
It has to be immensely taxing to go through all that knowing there's a vocal and highly anxious audience out there waiting to tear through the work. The same work that needs to be done without Slash, with a guy who wears a bucket and a mask and talks through a puppet. Then again, Axl's known to be a person who clamps down when everyone is out ta get him.
I gave into a lot of pressure on Illusions both internally in Guns and externally in the press, those albums suffered as a consequence, it's not something I'm too excited to have to live with again.
That was a tough ruling, actually - "I refuse to compromise with the band in regards to the album." Meaning, forcing his hand is bound to end in tears, which probably contributed to production personnel walking in and out like no tomorrow. It was likely an obstacle course in trying to pamper and coax Axl to make any progress.
I'm not really sure what Fortus brings to the music, unless we find out he co-wrote tracks that were saved for Chinese Democracy. I laughed when the CD credits came out and he did nothing but strum a guitar buried under Paul Huge on the album and his hardcore fans were shocked. I have always said this guy is overrated and will continue to say it until proven otherwise.
Fortus was touring with Enrique Iglesias while he auditioned for Guns. He's a career musician first and an artisté second. He's like Frank and Dizzy, the ideal people Axl wants in his solo project. They'll show up on notice, are happy enough on retainer and work dutifully on whatever he wants.
And to be fair, most of the songs included had been written by the time Fortus showed up.
Hell, nesquick was never seen again.
I hope he grew up.
- elevendayempire
- Rep: 96
Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...
The other thing that was missing in '01/'02 was any sort of publicity plan. I mean, basic stuff like getting the new line-up together for a photoshoot. Without that, every newspaper, magazine and website looking to write a story about GN'R is going to go rummaging in their photo archive for whatever GN'R pics are to hand – and they'll be images of the old line-up, or if you're lucky, early 90s Axl on his own. Which inevitably fuels the comparisons between the old band and the new, their respective images, and whether Axl looks fatter these days (Hey, people are superficial). It's fucking absurd that it took until 2012 for the band to release an official, staged photo of the current line-up to media outlets.
- elevendayempire
- Rep: 96
Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...
elevendayempire wrote:It's fucking absurd that it took until 2012 for the band to release an official, staged photo of the current line-up to media outlets.
What? This exists? With Axl?
The one Axl sent to the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame:
Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...
Ashba is still distracting in that and worst of all he's stealing Pitman's spotlight 
.
Speaking of which, another upside about him leaving, no remix album. The idea of hearing new versions of Chinese Democracy tracks with Ashba is beyond cringe worthy. Doesn't matter if some remixes weren't that bad, it's just pointless.
Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...
supa, you're right he wasn't "dressed for success". I'm one of those people that doesn't really care what any of them are wearing but in a general sense it certainly matters. Main reason a lot prefer the 2006 period is the "presentation". He looked like he was back to kick ass and chew gum.
Oh, don't get me wrong, i don't care what he's wearing, it's just one of those details that adds to the 'rushed/ i don't really wanna do this' feeling that i got from the whole thing. Like that kid that plays at home and suddenly he's sent to do his chores and says 'Do I really have to!?' 
And in 02 his singing was Mickey Mouse all the time. I mean a few weeks with a vocal coach wouldn't hurt if you're getting ready for your worldwide comeback to the top of the rock world.
In 2006 the look was there, the clothes, the vocals. He was joking about 'downloading motherfuckers'. Putting it all together it looks much better planned with the exception of the 3rd guitarist mess/saga. And even that would've been a good time to drop the album. He was headlining every festival around the world. But again the wheels fell off who knows why.
It's like the boy who cries wolf, at some point people just didn't care anymore
- elevendayempire
- Rep: 96
Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...
James Lofton wrote:supa, you're right he wasn't "dressed for success". I'm one of those people that doesn't really care what any of them are wearing but in a general sense it certainly matters. Main reason a lot prefer the 2006 period is the "presentation". He looked like he was back to kick ass and chew gum.
Oh, don't get me wrong, i don't care what he's wearing, it's just one of those details that adds to the 'rushed/ i don't really wanna do this' feeling that i got from the whole thing. Like that kid that plays at home and suddenly he's sent to do his chores and says 'Do I really have to!?'
And in 02 his singing was Mickey Mouse all the time. I mean a few weeks with a vocal coach wouldn't hurt if you're getting ready for your worldwide comeback to the top of the rock world.
In 2006 the look was there, the clothes, the vocals. He was joking about 'downloading motherfuckers'. Putting it all together it looks much better planned with the exception of the 3rd guitarist mess/saga. And even that would've been a good time to drop the album. He was headlining every festival around the world. But again the wheels fell off who knows why.
It's like the boy who cries wolf, at some point people just didn't care anymore
Yeah, I do wish in retrospect that they'd been able to get Buckethead back for the 2006 tour. Some stability in the line-up would've helped matters enormously (though I do like many of Bumblefoot's contributions; the fretless guitar in Chinese Democracy in particular).
Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...
What can then be deduced by such fashion? There's the insecurity; putting up with layers of clothing to hide one's bodily shape. The crowd-pleasing, associating with their local sports heroes. The identity crisis, he certainly came across wondering who he was in that day and age, and how should he express that. It's as if he looked at the entertainment world around himself and had a serious issue with placing himself on the map anymore. "Just be yourself" is a tough advice to give him.
That's a damn good point. Hadn't thought of it to that extent but you're right. Most hardcores say that lineup didn't fit that time frame but you could make a better case saying HE didn't fit. Early 00s were certainly a strange time in pop culture, especially post 9/11.
Overcoming the endless and seemingly insane amount of obstacles faced by all involved, notwithstanding the emotional challenges endured by everyone -- the fans, the band, our road crew and business team -- has at many times seemed like a bad dream in which one wakes up only to find that they are still in the nightmare.
Wow. Don't remember this Axl quote but he nails it describing it as a dream turned into endless nightmare. Like how he included fans in that statement.
I know as fans a lot of us consider the majority of all his reasons to be bullshit excuses but the project had to be a major monkey on his back, especially those early years. Its almost like he considered the project to be a sort of purgatory.
I love Bucket but that chicken coop thing was just taking it too far. Even if he's just taking the piss at that point its still going overboard. Never liked Tommy's negativity towards Bucket but his points are certainly valid on this point. Tommy's "I'd like to shit in his bucket" was terrible at the time but us fans had no clue as to what was really going on.
I gave into a lot of pressure on Illusions both internally in Guns and externally in the press, those albums suffered as a consequence, it's not something I'm too excited to have to live with again.
Probably the most troubling quote from Axl regarding recording. While I have no doubt he "gave in" to an extent on UYI, that wait was crazy and UYI certainly suffers from spending too much time polishing it. One of the best things about Axl and Slash being on friendlier terms is it ups the chances of us hearing that version of UYI that Slash always raved on.
CD wise, any time progress is mentioned about the followup, I think of this quote.
And to be fair, most of the songs included had been written by the time Fortus showed up.
Doesn't this statement mean that he is likely to have the same minimal dog whistle contributions that he had on CD? I don't see the point in removing Huge on any of the material regardless of how long its been. I can imagine Axl removing just about any contributions to the album but his.
The other thing that was missing in '01/'02 was any sort of publicity plan. I mean, basic stuff like getting the new line-up together for a photoshoot. Without that, every newspaper, magazine and website looking to write a story about GN'R is going to go rummaging in their photo archive for whatever GN'R pics are to hand – and they'll be images of the old line-up, or if you're lucky, early 90s Axl on his own. Which inevitably fuels the comparisons between the old band and the new, their respective images, and whether Axl looks fatter these days (Hey, people are superficial). It's fucking absurd that it took until 2012 for the band to release an official, staged photo of the current line-up to media outlets.
I bitched for years about this very subject back then. It would have taken minutes to do an official band photo and it was one of the reasons you couldn't take this era of the band seriously, especially from a casual audience point of view.
Same in 2006. CRAZY to not have photos promoting the band, especially when promoters started using pics of the AFD lineup to promote festivals. Shocked they weren't sued for false advertisement.
Thanks for posting that 2012 pic. Too little too late though.
Speaking of which, another upside about him leaving, no remix album. The idea of hearing new versions of Chinese Democracy tracks with Ashba is beyond cringe worthy. Doesn't matter if some remixes weren't that bad, it's just pointless.
Other than being a bonus disc on CD in 2008, this so called remix album made zero sense then and less sense now. I get why some fans want this but it will never be released. Even if CD had been a massive success there was little chance of a remix album.
He was joking about 'downloading motherfuckers'. Putting it all together it looks much better planned with the exception of the 3rd guitarist mess/saga.
Us hardcore fans were buzzing over who it was going to be but you're right. Total mess and fairly unprofessional handling of it. In the days leading up to the big comeback 3.0, the world should know who is going to be the lineup on stage, especially taking into account the history of the band.
He took his time to allow the band to feel their way into it in the dark. Then, he recorded vocals and every time he did that, a GNR track was born. Granted, he was apparently went through a hideously dark period in life to reach the recording booth, and releasing the album(s) there and then would've been a major relief on a human level.
“There’s not a release date right now, not that I’m aware of,” says Nine Inch Nails guitarist Robin Finck, who teamed with Rose for much of the album before quitting in frustration. “And I would know.”
A publicity spokesperson at Interscope Records, GN'R’s label, confirmed that the album does not currently appear on the schedule of upcoming releases for 2000, even as a title TBD (with release date “to be determined”).
Finck laughs at a comparison to Brian Wilson’s legendary Beach Boys album, Smile, and notes the similarities. (Wilson worked feverishly on the record throughout the mid-‘60s but was never able to coherently complete it. It remains one of the great lost albums of rock.)
“Yeah,” Finck chuckles. “It was great for a while, but then it became terribly frustrating not seeing anything completed because no lyrics were finished.” Adding to the frustration was that Finck had passed on the chance to work with Trent Reznor on NIN’s latest, The Fragile, in order to do the Rose sessions.
“It’s one of the reasons I’m not there anymore. No one song was ever completed — and I was there for two and a half years.”
But even after working endlessly on the GN'R album, Finck is unable to speculate on how it’s going to turn out.
“I’d helped write and arrange and recorded enough songs for several records,” he says. “Honestly, we recorded so many different song ideas and completed so many different types of songs — from quiet, very simple traditional piano songs to 16 stereo tracks of keyboard blur and everything in between.”
But, he notes, “most of the stronger songs that ended up on A-lists when I was there were huge rock songs, built for the masses, really guitar-driven.”
Finck has heard little since then from Rose, who is the only remaining member of the Guns N’ Roses lineup after buying the rights to the name from former guitarist Slash.
“When he finishes the lyrics, I assume [the songs] are going to be released,” Finck says. “I hope they turn out great. There’s a lot of potential there.”
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Bat shit crazy in hindsight. Album title TBD? I assume this is that very brief moment of 2000 Intentions? I need to dig through CD Whispers on that. I don't remember much about it but I do know it was now you see it, now you don't. I don't think the media picked up on that much so we never heard anything else about it.
