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Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...
Anyone can jump in here obviously but I'm curious to see the opinions of people like ID, apex, sky dog, atari,etc. who were huge fans of 2001-02 era...
IF a reunion does happen or it's more silence, what are your thoughts in retrospect on what should have happened with that lineup compared to what did actually happen in the final chapter?
Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...
I saw this line up in Vegas in 2001 and was blown away. Killer show, just insane. It made me a believer instantly. I had seen the original band only once prior, back around 1991 if I recall. I had been a fan since 1987 when I heard WTTJ single on the radio. I was seriously bummed about their break-up, but open to the idea of a new band.
If I recall there was a show prior to that in Vegas as well. The media was actually interested at that time, gave it good reviews, and was quite positive towards Axl. He had been gone long enough for the demand to be there again, even if it didn't include the old crew.
There wasn't many active sites back then (anybody remember The Lost Rose? That was my favorite back then), and I was so excited for news, I drove down to the store to buy the magazine which had the write up of New GnR. It may have been Entertainment Weekly. At the end of the article, the author wrote (paraphrasing) "now it's just time for Axl to get in the ring."
In my opinion they should have dropped the album right around that time. The VMAs were a spectacle (for better and for worse) but he had the crowd. He had the public's interest. He should have done it all then: Videos, Late Night Shows, SNL, and SMALLER GIGS. Build up some buzz, capture the media by blowing them away in more intimate venues across the country. I tend to believe the half empty arenas were tough for Axl to deal with (I also think this had a lot to do with why the tour ended pre-maturely.) More so, it looked bad from a PR standpoint, and really could not compare to what I saw at (the old) Joint in Vegas. The shows were simply swallowed up by the empty space surrounding them. Critics couldn't get past that and even see the show(s.)
But IMO, Axl should have taken that talent, and exploded onto the scene with little to no notice. A few shows here and there (Joint, Rio etc) then drop all the goods and promote the shit out of himself. MTV still sucked back then, but they would absolutely accommodated him just about any way he would have wanted.
At the end of the day, I believe the GnR brand was simply too much for Axl to deal with. He got what he wanted, but like the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...
Ultimately, it was maddening to see him assemble such talent and do nothing with it.
Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...
I agree, he missed his momentum in 2002. It might even still have worked in 2006. He was in good shape then and got good reviews, as he still managed to win people over.
Maybe the best thing to do now is to empty the vault. Release everything. Tour it a little and then close that chapter and get in shape for the reunion.
Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...
I felt he should have just dropped the album in 2001. There was decent buzz coming from the two Las Vegas concerts and the Rock in Rio concert as well. There was also a very good Rolling Stone article that came out in 2000 as well. Again, things were aligned for him to release the album.
Personally speaking, while I'm not a big fan of that lineup, I was excited after hearing those new songs and wanted to hear what the entire album sounded like. After that there was like a cancelled tour (in 2001) and more silence, until he finally did the VMA thing in 2002. Ultimately though, I wonder if the band were better prepared for that VMA performance whether or not that would have led to a better outcome. This next part sounds really superficial but I wish Axl would have worn something other than a football jersey and Finck would have worn something normal. They really looked like freaks/weirdos in that performance and I think that turned some people off. And Axl should have been in shape/sang better in that performance. I went and listened to the Jungle part of that performance and it wasn't very good at all.
But anyway, even if they do drop the album in 2001-2002, does anyone not think that Axl would have screwed it up in some way or another?
Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...
Every time I start listing forum members names for whatever reason I ALWAYS forget people, it's why the etc. is there. Was hoping for Cramer to chime in because he's the only long time forum member that I can remember who actually witnessed that iconic show.
I remember the old sites also. I posted on those basic bulletin boards back then. Hell, I remember HTGTH when it wasn't even a forum. 
Basically just pictures, lyrics, shit like that.
He def had the media on his side in 2001. Mainstream media outlets gave those 01 shows positive reviews and even commented on the CD tracks, showing they were looking forward to that and not any sort of nostalgia. It's why I always laughed at forum people who said the media never gave new GNR a chance. Yeah they gave it a chance until they saw the pattern that took hard core fans YEARS to see. Media was always one step ahead of the fans. In 2003 is when Chinese Democracy officially was turned into a pop culture joke and it took hard cores about two years to see the light on that as well.
But IMO, Axl should have taken that talent, and exploded onto the scene with little to no notice. A few shows here and there (Joint, Rio etc) then drop all the goods and promote the shit out of himself. MTV still sucked back then, but they would absolutely accommodated him just about any way he would have wanted.
I've said it before but when he saw what Cornell was doing with Audioslave in that same time frame he should have just copied it. Not talking about using a dif name, just the formula Audioslave used. Album after album and Audioslave songs completely dominating their set lists which let fans know immediately to not come for a greatest hits set. Audioslave fans basically got the trilogy that Axl promised, and in the exact time frame Axl promised. 
IMO the only real ambition he ever had for the project was during that phase and once he lost it the saga was officially over and was dragged out for dramatic purposes. IMO he took advantage of the aura surrounding the project and used that for the several nostalgia tours he has unleashed on the world since resurfacing in 2001.
In 2009 during that Asia leg of the tour some of those shows were CD heavy. Why wasn't that the set list in 2001 when it actually would have made a difference?
At the end of the day, I believe the GnR brand was simply too much for Axl to deal with.
Yep. He had absolutely no clue as to how to market the damn thing. When even your own fans are confused what chance did it ever really have?
Ultimately, it was maddening to see him assemble such talent and do nothing with it.
This will always puzzle me as well. It's why I want to hear the best tracks left in the vault. If that lineup wasn't able to come up with something that kicks more ass musically than Riad then I will be left speechless.
I agree, he missed his momentum in 2002.
Something happened during that period that fans have debated off and on for years. He went from excited to not giving a shit practically in the same breath. This is where the album rejection theory comes in. Uni was crazy to reject it at any period(including 01). Had they known the material would continue to get worse as the years passed, this story would have played out differently.
But anyway, even if they do drop the album in 2001-2002, does anyone not think that Axl would have screwed it up in some way or another?
Good to see you back.
2001: Media loves him. Media and fans salivating for new material. He has the lineup that actually recorded the album.
2002: Massive buzz from VMA's. Radio promos promoting tour containing studio samples of CD, Blues, Madagascar. Something goes wrong. Fans are no longer buying tickets.
To me the key issue regarding a potential album release in this time frame isn't Axl possibly fucking up, it's the album itself. Those CD demos were pretty damn good and that's probably what we would have got since everyone on them was in the band in 2001-02. However, I still don't hear a hit although something might have caught on simply because the album would have been taken more seriously. It also would have sounded better as the few who heard the 2001 album said it shit all over the album we got in 2008.
Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...
polluxlm wrote:Axl was extremely fragile going into it. As late as 97 or 98 he hadn't even sung in a studio since the Illusion recordings. One of the producers remarked it appeared to be a sensitive issue for him.
But then he got things rolling. A new band was formed, recording started in earnest. Oh My God was ready in a relatively short time span and released, alongside a somewhat lengthy explanation from Axl about the song. It bombed and later he would claim it was just a demo.
He tread somewhat more carefully after that. A small show in Vegas, a safe festival show in Brazil. That appears to have given him back his confidence and the 02 tour was booked with plans for an album. But like someone said I think the half empty arenas and his age impeding his performance was hard to take. He didn't feel confident out there, not about performing, not about releasing music.
He gave one decent push in 06 but you could tell it was different. Gone were the avant garde new songs and crazy outfits. Finck grew out his hair, Bucket left and replaced by a much more mainstream rock guitarist, at least in terms of look. He was safing it. Instead of making GN'R something brand new he was opting for a sort of continuation of the old with new players.
With the 02 lineup he lost legitimacy. If he had stayed with that there would have been little anyone could say. Players were way different, songs were different. People could say "alright, if that's what he wants to do". But when that became the nostalgia show people started thinking "why don't you just reunite if all you are going to do is play old Gnr stuff?". What could have been a true "new Gnr" became "just Axl left from the old band".
Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...
He wasn't ready. Everyone around him was but he was late, as always.
In Rio on '01 he was struggling, and couldn't even get his soundcheck done right. And he was wearing training pants for god's sake. That doesn't look like a professional getting ready to play for 100k+ people for his big comeback in the spotlight.
Again, at the VMA's in '02. I remember staying up all night because i've read about the rumours on the net and at 6AM Fallon drops the 'patience' pun and wears a GNR shirt and everything went wild. He still had the audience with him then. But still he was out of shape and couldn't sing. Mickey Mouse voice all over. Hockey jerseys.
It would've been awesome to get that line-up to tour behind the album right them. Bucket and Finck looked awesome there. Yeah they shocked people but they looked awesome. And they could write good songs.
But, to cut it short: VMA's, drop album, tour, drop 2nd album in 04-05 and tour. Make believe 
Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...
Don't have anything to add, really. 2002 was it. They should have just done it all then and acted like a real band. I saw them on the '02 tour, and I fell in love with the band all over again. Bucket especially, obviously. The crowds loved Bucket. Finck it was meh, but when Bucket busted out Star Wars or his nun chucks, the crowd went wild. Axl had his new Slash, but he pissed it all away.
Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...
I wasn't a huge fan of the 01-02 lineup...mostly because I was unwilling to accept anything as GnR without at least Slash, Axl, and Duff. Heck, I was disappointed when Izzy left...not that there was anything wrong with Gilby, but it wasn't the same. Drummers are - well - drummers.
In retrospect though, I think this was the only shot at Axl reinventing himself (I still feel it should have been minus the name, but that's not the point of this thread). While I am not a big BH fan, I respect the guy's talent. I still have some of his solo stuff on my iPod and give it a listen from time to time. Finck sucks at playing the classic stuff, but he brought something unique and in its own way good to the table. If a song like TWAT was ready to go in 2001 I think it was rock enough to interest the old fans in what Axl was doing and different enough to make new fans.
By keeping the name, he kept people's expectations of a certain thing and he didn't deliver on it. Had he gone out as something different, I think it could have been a big deal. I hate that my post circles back to this part of this (the name) because after all these years I am over it, but that doesn't change what I believe is the fact that had he gone with a different name he would have been given more of a chance by at least some of the people. He had so many people against him that even the greatest album in the world would have been received the same way CD was. He set himself up to fail, though I completely understand why he did what he did.
By the time he did release the album, for the most part after that I think he did the best he could with the hand he was dealt outside of not getting himself into better singing shape. When I saw them in Vegas, it was a damn good show. I didn't care who was there and who wasn't there. It sounded really good and I thought stayed true to what GnR was more in the old band era than in the 01-02 era. I can see why fans of the 01-02 era were disappointed and I can see why some fans of the old band were more accepting. I regret not seeing the 01-02 era live. I had the chance to go, but I was too stubborn to buy a ticket. In all the years of my GnR fandom, that's probably my biggest regret (at least in terms of things that were actually possible). My second biggest regret is skipping out on a VR show when I had the chance to go figuring I'd just go to one later.
