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- Topics: Active | Unanswered
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: Slash Blames Media For Axl Feud.
Mikkamakka wrote:I still can't understand how you don't get that the name issue was dirty business. They signed over the name for whatever reason, but for not a single cent? Is it likely that anyone would do this without major pressure? Hell no. The only exception is if they're so high or crazy that they can't stand for their own interest. Any case, it was dirty. Also, they were pretty much fooled out of their own band and downgraded to employees. Isn't it dirty business? When Axl cut Izzy's money (which led to his leaving) was also dirty business, don't you think? Slash N' Duff had plenty of times to experience how business works in Axl's land. It's obvious that when their money income were directed to Axl, they pissed off.
What money were they supposed to be entitled to? The financial arrangement remained exactly the same as before as far as I recall. Axl never cared about money, taking over the band had nothing to do with that. The "major pressure" you're speaking of is, if true, that Doug told Slash and Duff that Axl might not go on stage if they didn't sign. Not exactly a novel prospect for them is it? And are we supposed to believe that Slash and Duff knew nothing about this name thing before Doug Goldstein popped up in their trailer before a gig? Likely this was a development with some time in the making, and with sober participants. The actual signing of the documents might have occurred before that gig. So why did they do it? Likely because the money stayed the same and Axl was already a Dictator in everything but writing, so what's the big deal? It's only later, when, according to Axl, Slash became embarrassed at the realization that he was now technically just an employee, so he put the entire band in limbo, eventually leaving, to try and pressure Axl into concessions.
The only dirty business I see here is Slash when he tries to overturn a decision he made willingly, and in the process ending the band. And Goldstein for weaseling in a threat which Axl probably didn't intend for him to do. Taking over the band like Axl did is certainly not the ideal image of a bandmate, but he was upfront about it, so nothing dirty. GN'R was always Axl's band in practice. Either he agreed to something or it didn't happen, so more of a natural progression as band matters became more formalized. Nobody got screwed out of any cash or real decision making.
I see a strong contradiction here.
You're acting like the name thing wouldn't have mattered at all. In fact this made Slash N' Duff an employee with zero say about the band. Axl was a dictator even before with his crazy antics, unbelievable agression and his move swings that risked the whole band's existance and even people's life. You are right that the others made serious compromises to avoid the band falling apart. But it wasn't Axl's puppet back-up band, like it is today. You and some other Axl worshippers are up to make others believe that getting the name was just for psychological reasons. No, it was obviously a power move, to gain full control. It was part of the plan. Axl's plan. It wasn't a coincidence that he got the name and then left the band and started a new one with the same name. Axl has no right to play innocent. With a little common sense, seeing this from a little distance even his fans should understand it. Just imagine if you were robbed out of your band the same way. You'd fuckin' kill the guy. I would, for sure. Slash N' Duff were gentlemen.
Hipsters go for the unknown, the obscure, the forgotten. They don't go for previously popular trends which are now uncool. There's a reason you don't see any hipsters with riding boots and swastikas. And if there's an Adolf Hitler in rock n' roll, it has to be Axl Rose.
I guess GNR forums are a different reality. Here suddenly supporting Axl Rose is equivavelent to having a gay truckdriver mustache in the real world as a 20-year old big city hetero. It's/he's not that bad as Adolf Hitler, just something obscure and forgotten.
Re: Slash Blames Media For Axl Feud.
If Axl was that terrible they should have quit after AFD. Matter of fact, they should have never joined the band in the first place. A lot of time was spent trying to make that follow up to UYI and I don't see what master plan there was... It was clear they couldn't work together for their own reasons and that Duff and Axl both decided to go into another musical direction than the throwback rock Slash wanted to make. That was according to Matt.
Re: Slash Blames Media For Axl Feud.
I see a strong contradiction here.
You're acting like the name thing wouldn't have mattered at all. In fact this made Slash N' Duff an employee with zero say about the band. Axl was a dictator even before with his crazy antics, unbelievable agression and his move swings that risked the whole band's existance and even people's life. You are right that the others made serious compromises to avoid the band falling apart. But it wasn't Axl's puppet back-up band, like it is today. You and some other Axl worshippers are up to make others believe that getting the name was just for psychological reasons. No, it was obviously a power move, to gain full control. It was part of the plan. Axl's plan. It wasn't a coincidence that he got the name and then left the band and started a new one with the same name. Axl has no right to play innocent. With a little common sense, seeing this from a little distance even his fans should understand it. Just imagine if you were robbed out of your band the same way. You'd fuckin' kill the guy. I would, for sure. Slash N' Duff were gentlemen.
Please, I said it wasn't for economic reasons. I never said anything about psychology or power, but if I did I would include both. Yeah, his plan was to take over the band. Everybody admits to this. So what? If it was such a big deal they could have just said no. Or continued on as "employes" doing the exact same thing they'd been doing previously. You act like he swindled them out of the name through some elaborate scheme. All he did was write up a contract and tell them he'd like for them to sign it. Yeah, they probably knew refusal would mean some hard times ahead, but that's life, that's Axl. Deal with it. Their way of doing it was signing away their rights so they could hit the bottle again. No wonder Axl didn't trust them to be reliable long term members.
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: Slash Blames Media For Axl Feud.
Mikkamakka wrote:I see a strong contradiction here.
You're acting like the name thing wouldn't have mattered at all. In fact this made Slash N' Duff an employee with zero say about the band. Axl was a dictator even before with his crazy antics, unbelievable agression and his move swings that risked the whole band's existance and even people's life. You are right that the others made serious compromises to avoid the band falling apart. But it wasn't Axl's puppet back-up band, like it is today. You and some other Axl worshippers are up to make others believe that getting the name was just for psychological reasons. No, it was obviously a power move, to gain full control. It was part of the plan. Axl's plan. It wasn't a coincidence that he got the name and then left the band and started a new one with the same name. Axl has no right to play innocent. With a little common sense, seeing this from a little distance even his fans should understand it. Just imagine if you were robbed out of your band the same way. You'd fuckin' kill the guy. I would, for sure. Slash N' Duff were gentlemen.
Please, I said it wasn't for economic reasons. I never said anything about psychology or power, but if I did I would include both. Yeah, his plan was to take over the band. Everybody admits to this. So what? If it was such a big deal they could have just said no. Or continued on as "employes" doing the exact same thing they'd been doing previously. You act like he swindled them out of the name through some elaborate scheme. All he did was write up a contract and tell them he'd like for them to sign it. Yeah, they probably knew refusal would mean some hard times ahead, but that's life, that's Axl. Deal with it. Their way of doing it was signing away their rights so they could hit the bottle again. No wonder Axl didn't trust them to be reliable long term members.
Yeah, I say he swindled them out. They both felt this way. Even Duff, who said to be supporting Axl's direction (whatever it was).
I repeat it - after their choice of making compromises or not, with this Axl dirty move (or more correctly: a serie of dirty moves) they were LEGALLY out of any decision making. It's a big difference.
On the alcoholism: do you think it's legit to rob drunks out of their property? Or old people? Or children? Or "bad men"? It's never right. Of course, Axl did it all for "good intentions" to "save the band". It's a lie. He's az egomaniac control freak who can't even handle his own life. Give him a gun and he'll shoot himself in the foot in a minute. That's happened with GN'R, too. He got full control, but with Axl's psychologically challenged mind, with his inability of leadership and with his inconsistence, only Steven Adler could have been worse as the man in charge. I think Axl's craziness was much more dangerous to GN'R than Slash's and Duff's addictions. History proved it.
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: Slash Blames Media For Axl Feud.
If Axl was that terrible they should have quit after AFD. Matter of fact, they should have never joined the band in the first place.
It's straight from an Axl interview or pr release, isn't it?
Without Slash's presence GN'R would have been Hollywood Rose 2, this board wouldn't exist and Axl would be long dead/in prison/in a mental asylum. Slash'd probably be dead, too. A win-win situation, lol.
Re: Slash Blames Media For Axl Feud.
The way your painting Duff and Slash is they were drunken, passive, weak, gullibale, pathetic, professional victims and Axl was Satan. I don't buy that. And if that's the case, where in the world is their integrity in this scenerio? I don't think Slash is as pristine as you're painting him. He's had just as big of issues, not to mention that its been said he let Todd Crew die of an OD and Axl protected Slash with an alibi, according to Jetboy anyway.
I think you got major Axl hatred issues, dude. 
We're not going to agree as I haven't taken things personal with the band (I don't mean that as a slight to you, btw), but I will say, you are by far the most dedicated original line up fan I've ever met.
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: Slash Blames Media For Axl Feud.
The way your painting Duff and Slash is they were drunken, passive, weak, gullibale, pathetic, professional victims and Axl was Satan. I don't buy that. And if that's the case, where in the world is their integrity in this scenerio? I don't think Slash is as pristine as you're painting him. He's had just as big of issues, not to mention that its been said he let Todd Crew die of an OD and Axl protected Slash with an alibi, according to Jetboy anyway.
I think you got major Axl hatred issues, dude.
We're not going to agree as I haven't taken things personal with the band (I don't mean that as a slight to you, btw), but I will say, you are by far the most dedicated original line up fan I've ever met.
Please. That OD case has nothing to do with this topic. I don't think Slash is a saint. I think he can easily be guilty of that death. If he is, then it's a worse crime that what Axl did against them/GN'R. But bringing up that in this case is parallel to when Axl supporters say that Slash is a thief, cause he stole his Top-hat, a leather belt and cassettes in the 80s. That OD, as sad as it is, had nothing to do with GN'R's music or existance.
Thanks for the latter comment, but I'm not that sure about that. I've lost my faith (both musically and personally) in Axl though in the early 2000s that CD only cemented.
Re: Slash Blames Media For Axl Feud.
I only brought it up because of how completely evil, without any redeeming qualities you were painting Axl as, and it's like, you know, those guys were really tight and they all have skeletons in their closets and ugliness in their personalities, etc. I don't think things are that black & white.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Slash Blames Media For Axl Feud.
I still can't understand how you don't get that the name issue was dirty business. They signed over the name for whatever reason, but for not a single cent? Is it likely that anyone would do this without major pressure? Hell no. The only exception is if they're so high or crazy that they can't stand for their own interest. Any case, it was dirty. Also, they were pretty much fooled out of their own band and downgraded to employees. Isn't it dirty business?
I have a hard time feeling sorry for millionaire rock stars that get so high or drunk they don't know what the hell they are doing. That is their choice. A very bad choice I might add, but that's the way it goes. They had 2/3rds majority of the partnership. They should have stood up and called Axl's bluff. He would have left the band and they could have hired a new singer.
Re: Slash Blames Media For Axl Feud.
Mikkamakka wrote:I still can't understand how you don't get that the name issue was dirty business. They signed over the name for whatever reason, but for not a single cent? Is it likely that anyone would do this without major pressure? Hell no. The only exception is if they're so high or crazy that they can't stand for their own interest. Any case, it was dirty. Also, they were pretty much fooled out of their own band and downgraded to employees. Isn't it dirty business?
I have a hard time feeling sorry for millionaire rock stars that get so high or drunk they don't know what the hell they are doing. That is their choice. A very bad choice I might add, but that's the way it goes. They had 2/3rds majority of the partnership. They should have stood up and called Axl's bluff. He would have left the band and they could have hired a new singer.
Me neither. I've never understood the romanticisation of drink and drugs. I also would imagine sharing a band/business with 2 heavy drug users would be a nightmare.
